Ground Up 14: Legends From the Steep with Doug Reed

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Robert
Okay.

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Doug Reed
Right, you tell you told me that we we crossed paths out there at Endless Wall a few years ago.

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Ari Grode
and don't know i don't

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Ari Grode
Yeah, yeah i was I was on a climbing trip with Bennett Harris and it was the first first time I'd ever climbed with him actually. I think we were about to leave Snake Butchers and we saw somebody trying the racist and you were standing there giving him some beta.

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Doug Reed
Yeah. So, you know, um um since then I've changed the name of that ah that route.

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Ari Grode
That's right.

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Doug Reed
That's now named confirmation.

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Ari Grode
Yup. Confirmation. Yup.

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Doug Reed
Yep, um I don't think that had that actually occurred ah in conjunction with that route um ah with that trip.

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Doug Reed
Yeah, um a friend of mine, Jamar Woods, and I discussed it um and I decided to change the name.

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Ari Grode
Really.

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Ari Grode
Okay.

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Robert
where did Where did confirmation come from?

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Doug Reed
um I would just, i like i usually with route names, I kind of go not so much with any kind of story or relating it back to the anything related to the route or anything so much as just the way I like, the way it sounds. But in that respect, I did like the way it sounded, but also in confirming his his feelings and thoughts about um about the original name. Yeah.

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Doug Reed
Yeah. um And he's ah he's um he's he's a younger climber than me, but he's a guy that I mentored and taught how to trad climb and stuff. And he's he's been an important climbing friend in recent years.

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Ari Grode
Oh, very cool. Yeah, that's a cool story.

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Doug Reed
Yeah. Yeah.

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Ari Grode
Yeah, that's, ah that's such a beautiful line. And it was funny here. And, uh, I think, I think the quote from you was the guy was working on one of the cruxes low on the route. And you said, I think I kind of maybe try to did it like this or something.

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Ari Grode
And he stuck to move next go immediately.

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Doug Reed
Yeah, yeah, I said you want some beta on that and he he kind of looks back like probably thinking like who's this old fucker?

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Ari Grode
And you're like, yeah.

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Doug Reed
Tell me how to do this move, you know and tell them exactly how to do it and he stuck it straight away, you know Yeah Yeah that um

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Ari Grode
Yeah, and and I think you i think you you looked at him and said, I think I saved you quite a bit of time on that and then kind of walked away. It was pretty amazing.

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Robert
That's awesome.

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Doug Reed
That's a pretty special zone right down in there and in my mind that that central endless right around the honeymooners ladders just about. just as good as it gets.

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Doug Reed
There's there's so many just mega, mega classics right in there, you know, that being that being one of them for sure, you know, just to the left there dial 911 and facing it on the other side of that, of the ladder, you've got quinzana plus, ah satanic versus, you know, there's just unbelievable routes right in there.

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Ari Grode
Legacy.

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Robert
Yeah, i don't I don't think you're the only one that thinks that.

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Ari Grode
Yeah.

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Doug Reed
Yeah.

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Robert
I mean, I know Chris Sharma called that route the the perfect rock climb, I believe. So you're certainly not the only one.

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Doug Reed
Yeah, right. How's that for flattery? I gotta say.

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Robert
not

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Doug Reed
Yeah.

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Ari Grode
It's about the ultimate honor.

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Robert
yeah i love that much Yeah, that's pretty good. That's about as good as it gets, if you ask me.

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Doug Reed
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As a matter of fact, but my friend Russ Clune, he really, he really had the eye for that line.

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Robert
Do you have

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Doug Reed
I thought that I I kind of thought that wall was kind of blank. And we were down there the previous season before I put it up. And he said, that that ought to be your that ought be your project next spring. And so he he kind of had the vision for it. And sure enough, it was it was the pride for the next season.

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Ari Grode
Oh, that's amazing. I mean, it is, it is a pretty blank looking wall. It's incredible. And it just glows in the light right there. I mean, it's, it's like pretty.

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Doug Reed
yeah It does.

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Ari Grode
us
Doug Reed
It does. And and it's super aesthetic. um I like the kind of old school ah sport climbing bolt spacing on it.

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Doug Reed
you know You got to get every one of those bolts solidly below your feet until you're clipping another one, you know and um which is you know is kind of old school, but I like it.

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Ari Grode
me

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Doug Reed
I like it. I think it makes for um fuller experience for sure.

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Ari Grode
Doug, I don't know if you follow any like climbing media, YouTube, or anything, but there was a recent video of that climb put out by, I think the channel's called like Brothers Climbing.

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Doug Reed
here

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Ari Grode
It's an absolutely beautiful, like beautifully done video of that route. um It's about 10 minutes, and it's it's one of my favorite like short climbing films, but it's so beautifully shot, and it really captures you know the route, and then you realize how long it is.

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Doug Reed
I'll have to look for it.

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Ari Grode
You kind of think it's going to be over a couple times, and then they just keep going.

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Doug Reed
Right.

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Ari Grode
moves all the way to the top. so

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Doug Reed
Yeah, I'll have to look for that.

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Ari Grode
yeah i'll i'll send I'll send you the link. It's it's pretty good. you'd you'd probably I don't know if you've seen that one, Rob, but it's you you'd like that too.

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Robert
of not know, but it sounds like sounds like we all need to add it to the list.

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Ari Grode
For sure.

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Robert
When when

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Doug Reed
Have you all done so some routes down in that zone?

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Ari Grode
Uh, on that trip that I was there with Bennett, um, we did legacy, which I fell off of as a warmup and then we did bullet the new sky, which was fantastic.

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Doug Reed
Yeah.

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Doug Reed
it's ah That's a very aesthetic route.

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Ari Grode
Uh, I think. Oh yeah. I love a good erect climb. So that was fantastic. I can't remember. I think Bennett was trying some maybe Vulcan block or something else over there.

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Doug Reed
Right.

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Ari Grode
And but then we ended up going to the bridge buttress later in the day.

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Doug Reed
ye yep Yeah. Yeah.

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Doug Reed
Yeah. Yeah. I kind of put up those two legacy and the one next to a discombobulated kind of is um mainly just, you know, to get a couple of good warmups right there for, for establishing those, those harder routes, you know, it's, it's kind of always part of my ah strategy is, you know, really developing like a,

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Doug Reed
a really complete kind of climbing area, which would include some good warm up routes as well as you know whatever the maybe harder routes are in there. And that was you know in keeping with that philosophy and developing that zone down in there.

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Ari Grode
I think it may be considered one of the best pitches of 11A at the news, so and not not really just a warm up, like a very sought after tick for anyone pushing into the 511 range, that's for sure.

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Doug Reed
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. you know and

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Doug Reed
yeah Yeah, and it was interesting in my mind in that that was really one of the first um sport routes that was being developed at the new where um we're putting putting bolts next to obvious gear placements. And um

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Doug Reed
And that, that was something new, you know, ah because in my climbing, you know, I went from starting climbing in 1973. So I was involved in climbing really through a lot of the transition from, you know, trad climbing, which back then was just called climbing because sport climbing didn't exist. And then moving on up through.

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Doug Reed
putting in more and more fixed gear, being pitons, hand drilling bolts and things like that, to ah sport climbing. ah Porter Girard and I did, we established the first sport climb at the New River Gorge, which is a route at Fern Point, Freaky Stylie, which was the first sport route fully equipped with top anchors. And then,

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Doug Reed
um And then eventually, like I said, if they were going to be sport rats, it's going to be all bolts, regardless if there was gear available or not, you know, which was, uh, you know, it's, that's a big step. It's something new, different. Yeah.

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Robert
What, I mean, you touched on a lot that I know we're certainly itching to circle back on, but to kind of lean into that a little bit more first, like what, what sort of prompted that for you and Porter and in terms of transition and like, okay, we could place gear over here, but this line, like we really want to climb this one.

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Robert
We were going to put the bolts in. Like when, when did that sort of start becoming acceptable for you?

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Doug Reed
Well, well is we as we started doing harder and harder routes,

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Robert
And like, what was sort of the motivation for that or, Was it a little nervy when you guys were doing that at first?

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Doug Reed
the availability of of clean gear was decreasing, right? And if we back up to like pre-power drill days, you know, it's so brutally physical to drill hand drill bolts that you just do anything you can to not have to hand drill a bolt. But as the routes got harder and harder, you know, you're banging in more and more peatons and hand drilling these like really ch crummy like little quarter inch inch and inch and a half long you know little bolts and stuff and there was just less and less you know clean gear you know and you'd end up with like you know half peatons and a couple of hand drilled bolts and maybe like

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Doug Reed
two pieces of gear, you know? And it just kind of got sort of silly to the point where, you know, and if you didn't know exactly what pieces are, you're taking a whole rack up there to place two cams or something, you know? Yes, it just got kind of ridiculous, you know? But you know it was a big jump to just start drilling bolts right next to gear placements, you know?

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Doug Reed
and and and I've done it.

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Ari Grode
Was...

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Doug Reed
And and um I've kind of come full circle on that a bit in that I'm really into mixed routes. Now I mainly climb trad routes these days.

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Doug Reed
um I mean, I do some sport climbing. i'll I'll take a trip to the red and clip bolts and stuff. um you know But mainly I climb more trad and mixed stuff these days.

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Doug Reed
or maybe reflect even the gray.

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Ari Grode
What was there? a

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Ari Grode
Yeah, curious. I mean, it seems like there's a lot of a lot of these different areas kind of have their own established ethic, you know, like perfect example of that is, ah you know, up in the peak district or the grit stone of the UK, you know, it's like, an it's an established ethic of absolutely no, no drilling bolts. And then, you know, every different area seems to have its own kind of ethic that's either developed or evolved over time. I mean, was there kind of an established ethic at the new at the time? Or was the community small enough that it was kind of you guys were you guys were establishing that ethic as you went.

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Doug Reed
we were We were making the ethic for sure. We were making the ethic for sure. um That would have been more significant just before I moved and to live at the New River Gorge. And I was living here in North Carolina. There were a lot of people that were you know really trying to dictate to others how they ought to climb and in what style and stuff like that. But I really, for the most part,

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Doug Reed
um I didn't pay much attention to that. I was just like, Hey guys, I'm, I'm kind of the top dog around here. I'll do whatever I want. You know, you can say whatever you want. And I was pretty blunt about it, you know, make, you know, cast whatever judgment they wanted. Cause I, you know, not only was I putting in a lot of bolts, I put up speaking in terms of no in North Carolina, you know, I put up routes harder and bolder than anybody else around here. So.

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Doug Reed
whatever, I could do whatever I wanted.

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Robert
i think I think that's a fair assessment if you ask me, but obviously I wasn't around.

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Doug Reed
You know, because before, you know, in the year, couple of years before I moved away from North Carolina, um primarily with good good climbing partner, good dude, who's really good friends with still now Tim Fisher, he and I are doing,

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Robert
but um no

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Doug Reed
We were doing the hardest and boldest ground up stuff that had ever been done in North Carolina. And like that year before I moved away from here, Tim and I did a stack of like really respectable ground up stuff.

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Doug Reed
um Some of which

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Ari Grode
Yeah, actually.

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Doug Reed
has not even been repeated and some are very seldom repeated. As a matter of fact, um ah the sixth ascent was just done a couple weeks ago of a row of fires at Moore's Wall called Plastic Cat.

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Doug Reed
And it was actually has now been upgraded by a letter. It's now 12CX. And, um you know, that would just be a perfect example of just like some pretty badass ground up stuff.

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Ari Grode
you You want to, like, what what is going ground up on a 12CX root like? can you take ah Can you take us through that process a little bit?

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Doug Reed
Yeah, I mean, it's in and that's with no preview. And above those six, um still only my first ascents, the only true ground up non-previewed ascent. So all five of those others. And actually, i'm I'm going to back up and not to take anything away from Tim, because cause I still stand by the fact that he and I were doing a lot of really great ground up stuff.

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Doug Reed
That was actually Porter. That would be have been the exception. Porter and I did that. um And Porter followed the first ascent and then came back and did the second ascent. So he had followed it and so had knowledge of the route. So back to your question though, like 12CX, I mean, you you got to go at it with some certainly with some commitment. um you know But tempering that commitment, you know, because you can't just dive into that and get too deep and take the ground fall or you can, but better not, you know, because I, and I had kind of forgotten what the gear was like, but, um, that, uh, that recent ascent, the assertion was in the first 45 feet, there was one nut and one ball nut.

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Doug Reed
in 45 feet and I would not have had a ball nut, would not have had a ball nut. That's another thing to keep in mind about a lot of ah lot of a sense that I had in the in the those on those kind of bolder ground up is depending on how far back you go, I might not have had really small cams.

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Ari Grode
Yeah, gear has certainly evolved over over the last couple of decades.

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Doug Reed
Yeah, yeah. um You know, there was there was a.

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Robert
Yeah, well we had Tim, ah we had Tim on and he said, I was just gonna say Tim, Tim, when he was on, I was like, yeah, we had the the one, two and three friend and we did a lot with just those three cams and the rest was kind of everything read assessed in that.

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Doug Reed
Yeah.

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Doug Reed
Yep, exactly. And I got it the next a gear development phase beyond that is I got a couple of kind of quote homemade like, you know, garage machine shop made.

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Doug Reed
0.5 half sizes and that was when wild country didn't even make anything smaller than the one and I shared that with Tim and Tim and I had those homemade half sizes and Even still that's not very small You know ah Yeah, so there's a lot of stuff where

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Ari Grode
No. A lot of people could do that at a pretty big cam.

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Doug Reed
uh maybe you had an r and x grade on stuff way back when which maybe is not there anymore but plastic cat certainly is still Yeah, still, still x-rated for sure.

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Doug Reed
Yeah. So you got to, got to temper that with, you know, not just charging in and getting too deep and end up taking the ground fall. Um, yeah. So it's, it's spooky.

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Doug Reed
It's spooky, but it's a full experience. It is a very full experience.

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Ari Grode
What

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Doug Reed
that

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Robert
Yeah, I can imagine.

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Doug Reed
You know,

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Robert
I mean, it's it's funny, like the the point three is sort of like my comfort piece, right?

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Ari Grode
about that?

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Robert
If I put that in, ah in I'm like mentally, I'm good. I can go. So it's funny to me even just imagine not even racking up with one of them, let alone two. But when you're looking at that, that yeah.

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Doug Reed
Yeah, yeah, you're you're right. you know The comfort of knowing you got in your quiver, you got that 0.3 or like the latest, you got that black totem, man. That's just like a blanket, like comforting to know you got that in the quiver.

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Robert
for

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Doug Reed
yeah

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Robert
For sure, for sure. So when you're looking up at Glassescat, did you have an idea, like, oh, this might be a little this might be a little X, or were you like, oh, this looks like a fun line. I think it'll be a good time. And then you'd kind of figure it out along the way, like, oh, there's not not a lot of gear on this thing.

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Doug Reed
I would have to say probably I thought there was going to be better gear. I think if I knew how shitty the gear would have been, I would have been kind of foolish to have gone up there.

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Doug Reed
um So I just just deal with it. you know um But probably I thought there would be better gear.

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Robert
Yep.

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Ari Grode
Yeah, that

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Doug Reed
Yeah.

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Ari Grode
Yeah, that's an interesting phenomenon because you're the only person, like when the route hasn't been established, nobody knows kind of the one, the difficulty into the danger element of it.

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Ari Grode
So growing ground up, the only person who experienced that.

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Doug Reed
Right, everybody else behind that knows. They know, you know, they know.

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Robert
yeah

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Ari Grode
Yeah.

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Doug Reed
And thus, that's why everybody else is at minimum repelled it and looked at it. I know one person did that.

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Doug Reed
And then everybody else climbed it, you know, um either like Porter following me on it, or yeah, just head pointed, top roped it. Yeah, Greg Loomis is the guy that did it most recently.

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Doug Reed
And Greg is hats off middle-aged guy that's probably doing about the hardest trad in North Carolina right now.

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Doug Reed
Real respectable. he's He's doing some good stuff, both repeats and first ascends.

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Ari Grode
Yeah.

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Ari Grode
yeah yeah Yeah, Greg gave us some some great photos of Tim when we put out his episode, and certainly somebody we'd love to chat with.

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Doug Reed
Yeah.

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Doug Reed
Y'all done done an episode with Greg or him Nice nice Yeah, you guys ought to check in with Greg he's doing some cool stuff very much so Yeah, I'll do that

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Robert
with Tim, but Greg had photos of Tim.

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Ari Grode
No, with Tim. but tim

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Robert
So that was helpful in terms of just like putting out the social media stuff. Yeah.

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Ari Grode
Yeah, i I'd love to get him on, so if you if you wouldn't mind giving him a nudge.

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Robert
yeah

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Robert
Love it. So when, when you were, I mean, I think there's probably a lot of things we want to chat about, but I just, I'm, I am fascinated with like, the kind of that world of, oh, like kind of figuring out, oh, this might be X halfway up the route, right?

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Robert
So did you find yourself, I mean, obviously you put up probably more routes than anybody in North Carolina or in the Southeast. So when you were, I mean, I would certainly love that, but my question was going to be, did, did I, yeah, that, that is just incredible to even wrap your head around.

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Doug Reed
Do you want to know about how many? In in excess in excess of 600.

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Robert
There's a lot of people that will never even hold on to 600.

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Doug Reed
and And that would include that would include um doing routes in north carolina first since in North Carolina, West Virginia, Kentucky, Alabama, and then sprinkle in a few out West. um one and One in the Black Canyon, I was pretty proud of.

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Doug Reed
One in Yosemite, some in Colorado. So yeah, that's that's the that's the ballpark number.

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Robert
Yeah. Yeah. It's incredible. I was going to ask in like, cause obviously you shifted into, you had different phases, right? Where you're kind of focused more on trad or focused more on sport climbing and all of that. But especially like in the, I guess the trad areas, did you prefer like the bolder, spicier ones? You know, like obviously you mentioned you and Tim and Porter were putting up like the hardest stuff in North Carolina. So no one could really talk talk down on your ethics or anything like that, or did you prefer the ones that were a little more straightforward?

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Robert
Like, was there a preference or was it just like, that's a beautiful line, I want to climb it.

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Doug Reed
a Not so much a preference, but as the grades progressed, it just naturally became the nature of those routes because the availability of trad gear became less available.

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Doug Reed
It wasn't like following a crack up a wall and you knew you were gonna eat gear. It's heading up on overhanging face climbs. you know Maybe it's there, maybe it's not.

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Robert
Yeah.

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Doug Reed
So just the the the type of climbs, overhanging face climbs, you're just not gonna get that much gear. And you know I was,

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Doug Reed
I was banging in pens to try to avoid having to hand drill bolts for sure, but I'd hand drill some bolts, you know, and generally that was stuff off.

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Doug Reed
um off hooks because it was steep um you know over here in western north carolina where i'm now which where the climbing trended more towards slab climbing i'd do that off free stances but obviously you don't get a free stance on overhanging face and i trended toward climbing

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Robert
Right.

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Doug Reed
steep stuff, you know, quartzite, not granite slab, like over a looking glass and, you know, white sides and stuff. And there's there's steep stuff over there.

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Doug Reed
But back in in that era, people were climbing slab, you know, they were standing on their feet big time.

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Ari Grode
Thank you.

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Doug Reed
And like what Tim and Porter and I were doing, Porter's a good bit younger than me and Tim, um but, you know, we were climbing overhanging fakes.

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Doug Reed
And that that that's excitement, you know moving up on overhanging face with looking to fish in.

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Ari Grode
yeah so some of those routes

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Doug Reed
ah a hook placement somewhere and tagline the drill up is pretty wild stuff. Like you take something like hanging chain at Roaming Bald, you know, you climb up a natural feature, you know, for whatever, like 75 feet.

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Ari Grode
Yeah, some of those routes.

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Doug Reed
And then you break out of that up onto overhanging face and you're looking to, you're looking to, catch a hook and put something in, you know, drill a bolt. It's pretty wild. It's pretty wild. And that route in particular had a bolt added to that head wall. I originally placed off hooks on lead three bolts and somebody added, Chris Doherty added a bolt up there that's now been removed.

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Doug Reed
perfectly knowing that that was stylistically, completely unacceptable. But that's been removed. But that' that's a heck of a route. you know And oh I don't know if you've seen in the guidebook, Harrison Shull's guidebook, he kind of talked some shit about that route and that and he he really I think unfairly characterized it because that was a really hard route and I employed a technique that some people would call an Australian slingshot in that we were working that really hard and I even left the rope up overnight through the top piece of gear and came back and climbed on it again

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Doug Reed
And the first time I got to the top of that was with the rope having hung overnight. but And so he's talked some shit about it and said, oh, that wasn't the first ascent. Well, no, it wasn't the first ascent exactly. But I went back and I climbed that thing three times totally clean before anybody else ever did it. So he didn't really have any room to talk any smack about it.

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Doug Reed
Right? um the Is that kind of extreme measures leaving the rope up overnight? Yeah, I would say that's a big jump. But you know, and that's the kind of the way I was, you know, I've kind of made up my own rules. I didn't wouldn't let anybody else dictate what I was doing. And I was always real straightforward about how and what I was doing there. But yeah, I went back and climbed several times totally clean before anybody else ever did it.

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Doug Reed
And um yeah, so. Hey, I don't think you really had any room to, you know, try to cast any in and dispersions on the on the ascent, really. like

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Robert
Yeah, I mean if you're if you're not doing the work to put it up, I feel like all ah all comments go out the door until you're the one taking it down, I guess.

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Doug Reed
Yeah, but that that's a heck of a pitch.

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Robert
ah

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Doug Reed
are Are you all familiar with that? That section of Waller at at Roland Balderal?

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Robert
Ari's climbed over there quite a bit, I believe.

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Doug Reed
Yeah,

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Ari Grode
Yeah, and and we chatted with Tim and quite a bit on the hanging chain.

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Doug Reed
on

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Ari Grode
He was talking us through. He said that was an amazing process. you know I think it was the rear view, just pushing that thing as high as you could go.

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Doug Reed
yeah you know, and and as I kind of started pushing, as I started kind of pushing the boundaries of technique and stuff like that, Tim was, he kind of went along with it for a little bit.

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Doug Reed
And then the sport climbing thing was just a jump too far. he he just went he couldn And I respect that. That's great. I love the style he's putting up roots in these days. And um that was just too much. and And I'm sure when I was saying like, yeah, let's just leave the rope up overnight. I'm sure he was having some uneasiness about that.

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Doug Reed
i was I was just about at the limit of what he could could ah could tolerate. for but but

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Ari Grode
Yeah, I think he made a comment, ah you know, saying that he was absolutely a staunch traditionalist and then climbing with you expanded his ah his ethical mindset just a little bit.

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Doug Reed
yeah

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Ari Grode
ah

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Doug Reed
And he's still, he's got his rules and he plays by his rules, you know, but, you know, like he's developed some, like I checked in with him, I think one Sunday evening, like, oh, you know, give him a call, like what went down this weekend, you know, blah, blah, blah.

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Doug Reed
And he's like, oh, the weather wasn't so good. I went out and did some bulk maintenance and glued some holes and shit like that. I was like, whoa, what? What? Glued some holes? What the fuck are you talking about?

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Robert
ah yeah that' my That's awesome.

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Doug Reed
Glued some holes.

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Doug Reed
So he has had some progression for sure. um

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Ari Grode
Yeah.

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Doug Reed
yeah

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Ari Grode
Well, it seems like, you know, I kind of want to bring it back a little bit to a little bit more of your climbing background. And and I'd also like to hear about some of these, you know, it's, you've mentioned linking up with Tim, linking up with Porter and, you know, diving into that scene, but like, who were some of the,

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Ari Grode
early climbing partners and some of the mentors and that you were climbing with as you progress towards some of the things we're talking about, plastic cat hanging chain. ah you You mind kind of diving into some of that background?

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Doug Reed
Well first first and foremost would definitely be my brother Maurice. My brother Maurice and I moved to Colorado pretty soon after high school and we were enrolled in university but we skipped a lot of classes and did a lot of rock climbing.

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Robert
much.

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Doug Reed
By the time I moved away from Colorado, I had done not first ascents, don't get me wrong, not first ascents, but I was really learning how to rock climb. And I had done ah hunt over 100 routes in Eldorado. Every spring, the day after school was out, we'd have the Volkswagen van packed up and we'd be heading to the valley, stay in the valley for months, six weeks until it got too hot. you know So we were really learning how to climb.

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Doug Reed
And I moved to, because i was of a girl I was dating, only reason you do something so insane, I moved to North Carolina. And and when I moved to North Carolina, because of the having that Colorado and Yosemite background, I was climbing harder than anybody was over here in North Carolina. So it was just like field day.

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Doug Reed
and There were people like Tommy Howard, super generous and cut my learning curve a lot by being really generous about here's where the rock is and here's where the routes are. So I didn't just have to like pull out topo maps and go sniffing this stuff out. He was just, he and Lee Carter, those guys are super generous um about,

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Doug Reed
Turning me on the stuff and they were only climbing really only up to about a 510 grade so when I moved here and I was climbing 511 and did the first 512 in North Carolina, there was just There was so much stuff and back to the takes circling that back to the new I went to time to the new with Tommy and um And once again climbed the very first 511 ever done. It's near regards, you know, so there was just climbing just a little bit harder than the other guys around this area.

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Doug Reed
There was just stacks of stuff to do. Yeah. But yeah, my brother and I, back to your question, we did a ton of climbing together.

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Ari Grode
Okay, and so when did...

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Robert
Yeah, it's, it's kind of wild.

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Ari Grode
Okay, and this is an older brother, younger brother?

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Robert
Yeah.

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Doug Reed
um He's 11 months older than me and you'll see him credited with some first ascents when he'd come he'd still be living in in Colorado and he made a few trips back to North Carolina and we did some good hard stuff if you guys climb at Shiprock So you'll see his

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Ari Grode
Wow, okay.

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Robert
Yep.

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Robert
yep

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Ari Grode
Oh yeah.

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Doug Reed
um his name coming first in the guidebook on first ascents like anguish of Captain Bligh, patio roof.

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Ari Grode
Yeah.

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Doug Reed
um you know So we we're doing some stout routes and you'll see most of the most of the stuff at ship that's harder than 5'10", he and I put those first ascents up. that That whole zone from gunfighter all the way over to chromium chain, we did all those, every one of them.

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Doug Reed
Gunfighter, revival, jingoist, razor boy, that that all of them just, yeah.

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Ari Grode
be I'd be curious to ask, I mean, to were those kind of lines? ah did Did people think, oh, these are too blank, they'll never go? Or did it take you and Maurice kind of kind of look at that and say, I think there's something here.

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Doug Reed
pretty Pretty much to a great extent. gras yeah to to a great extent. I mean, those are those are hard routes. Those are hard routes. um You know, even even the 511 ones, I mean,

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Ari Grode
Okay.

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Doug Reed
Gum fighters, a hard 5'11". Have you done that?

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Ari Grode
Yeah, actually I recently did that, uh, this last October, September sometime this fall.

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Robert
No

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Doug Reed
Yeah.

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Ari Grode
Uh, yeah, that's an amazing pit.

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Doug Reed
Well, you may or may not have known of kind of a infamous free solo.

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Ari Grode
Yeah. So hard and blank and a little spicy.

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Doug Reed
I free soloed that barefoot.

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Robert
I, we were going to ask about that.

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Doug Reed
And that that is that is that is very true.

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Robert
We weren't sure.

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Doug Reed
there That's not just that's ah you know legend or whatever, or maybe it is, but it's 100% true. Yeah.

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Robert
What was that like and what, what, how did that come about?

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Ari Grode
Okay. Yeah.

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Doug Reed
it was it It was fucking totally chill. It was totally chill. I got up, pulled pulled the little overhang, leaned in real close to the wall, and dipped in the chalk bag, put put some chalk on each big toe, reached up and grabbed those crimps and just bared down like a motherfucker. And it it happened. you know it it was not It wasn't scary. It wasn't exciting. or it was it was It was totally zen. It was the way it needed to be. But its looking back on it, that's fucking hairball.

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Doug Reed
that's

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Ari Grode
Yeah.

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Doug Reed
it It kind of almost makes me a little nauseous to think about it.

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Ari Grode
and No kidding.

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Robert
where were Were there a lot of barefoot free solos in your time?

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Ari Grode
I mean.

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Doug Reed
i've I've done a lot of barefoot free soloing, not stuff that hard.

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Robert
Okay.

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Doug Reed
And because of the nature of those footholds, that makes it especially hard to to get your footing on that. um

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Robert
It's pretty thin, isn't it?

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Doug Reed
ah It's really thin, really thin. um

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Doug Reed
and And not by any means my heart is free solo, because I'm free solo 5-12 grade, um but certainly a proud moment, certainly a proud moment for sure.

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Ari Grode
So how did you kind of...

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Robert
i'd be I'd be incredibly proud if i if I rocked up to that without any shoes and just took it down, absolutely.

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Doug Reed
Yeah. And the other one that I mentioned up the way there, that um ah ah um anguish, I did a free solo barefoot of that as well.

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Doug Reed
Those those two are probably the hardest barefoot free solos I ever did. Yeah.

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Ari Grode
and Okay, an anguish is not my...

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Doug Reed
um I'll say yes, they were. Definitely.

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Ari Grode
Anguished is always one that's got me. I've fallen, I've one hung that thing like, I don't know, 10 times now. its But it's always getting that cam in that that gets me kind of pumped. ah But.

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Doug Reed
You know, and as I get older, I kind of keep, you know, letting grades kind of creep, but these days it feels darn near 512 to me.

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Ari Grode
You're helping my ego a little bit.

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Robert
Well, Ari, if you just, Ari, if you just took the shoes off and didn't bring the rack, it wouldn't be that hard.

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Doug Reed
hey

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Robert
If the problem is you getting the camera, in no big deal, dude.

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Doug Reed
Yeah.

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Ari Grode
Right. Yeah.

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Doug Reed
Yeah.

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Ari Grode
It's all the, it's all this stuff.

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Doug Reed
light Lighten your load, right? Yeah.

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Ari Grode
Yeah. I mean, so what put you down that, church I mean, when did you start kind of doing some of these, what put you down the trajectory of doing a lot of bold climbing, like free throwing that hard?

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Doug Reed
i started I started doing a lot of free soloing when I was in eldora and ah climbing in El Dorado, primarily, when I lived in Colorado. And I do big free solos, like all the way up the Red Guard wall, what is that thing, like 800 feet?

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Doug Reed
And i'd I'd go climb all over that thing. Sometimes barefoot, sometimes with shoes, but yeah, climb all over that, mainly moderate stuff. um Back then I was mainly climbing

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Ari Grode
Yeah.

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Doug Reed
a free solo in like five, nine and below, you know, but, but still pretty tall red guard wall, you know, it's pretty big, you know, it's not big wall, but you know, I think it's what seven or eight hundred feet.

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Doug Reed
um So when I moved to North Carolina, I had, I had done a lot of free solos and a couple of my hardest free solos, it would have been a good bit after I initially moved to North Carolina would have been out at

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Ari Grode
yeah

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Doug Reed
what was kind of like my home crag because i lived in charlotte crowders mountain which is not a very good crag but there are some high quality routes out there and that's why i did my first 512 free solo and to this day i was asking robert hutchins um and tim about it and and they think uh this um Shane ko Coburn route, which is a real masterpiece of his, called Skunk Pie out there, which is 12B. That was my first 512 free solo. And it seems kind of crazy to even think about this, but when I free soloed that, the hardest thing that I'd ever read pointed was probably 12C.

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Doug Reed
So we're talking about a letter grade margin, which is razor thin.

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Robert
That's wild.

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Robert
What, what kind of like, I guess, why were you free soloing at such a close like range? Like, cause you've talked about a lot of times you were kind of way below, like you're kind of the moderates.

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Robert
What kind of like motivated you to, to kind of close that gap?

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Doug Reed
You know, I'd spent a lot of time out there. It's a brilliant route. And, you know, I would i was I was a real testosterone charged, like competitive asshole back then. And Shane had snagged this just brilliant route. And ah to be ah to be brutally honest, back in those days, I would have been pissed that he snagged that route, that he got that, that got away from me. And I'll be damned, I was going to go fucking free solo that because he snagged it.

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Doug Reed
You know, and I would have nightmares about that.

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Ari Grode
take it up a notch

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Doug Reed
Like, I'm gonna go fucking free solo that thing.

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Robert
as As I, that's awesome. I mean, I think that just the competitive aspect of that, like I i played, uh, soccer for a long time in college and everything afterwards. And then like, so the the competitive nature that I got, I feel like that's something that sometimes climbing lacks.

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Robert
So it's kind of fun when you hear stories about it, like, Oh no, it was, it was very, very much a part of the the community and the culture, but was, did you dial it in beforehand or was it like, ah, I've kind of gone up at once.

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Ari Grode
Take it up a notch.

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Doug Reed
Oh, it was super dialed. It was super dialed.

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Robert
Okay.

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Doug Reed
I probably top-roped that thing. I'd let it, but I'd probably top-roped it at least a couple of dozen times. It's really, really dialed. Really dialed. But oh, back to what I was saying, tim according to Tim and Robert Hutchins, that's never been free soloed again. And and like Robert's free soloed a lot of stuff out there at Crowder's. And that was one reason it came up, because I was asking Robert not so much to challenge him. We're real good friends. um Because I kind of thought he may have free soloed it. But he said, no, he had not. He had not.

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Doug Reed
um And I did my next 512 free solo out there, um another 12B called Fashion, which...

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Ari Grode
So did.

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Doug Reed
um

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Doug Reed
I didn't like get rattled or super scared, but it wasn't as dialed. I hadn't done it as many times, and it's probably harder and more insecure than skunk pie.

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Doug Reed
um

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Doug Reed
But i didn' i didn't get I didn't get rattled, but it we i I was maybe a little anxious for a moment.

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Ari Grode
not Did that like change, I mean, i did that change the course of did did eventually you kind of stop free soloing or did did you, was there a moment where you're kind of like, I'm reaching the edge here.

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Doug Reed
it ah Eventually, no not not really. I started doing fewer like 512 free solos.

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Doug Reed
Though i do i've done a so I used to have some pretty impressive or I thought impressive kind of free solo routines that I would do at the it's the new.

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Ari Grode
and Okay.

297
00:42:23,420 --> 00:42:27,300
Doug Reed
Like I i do

298
00:42:27,300 --> 00:42:46,110
Doug Reed
I'd go to the bridge butchers and I had a pretty good routine of stuff I would do there up to like, the harder end of that routine would be stuff like handsome and well hung and marionette.

299
00:42:46,110 --> 00:42:49,340
Doug Reed
Do you know marionette? 11, 11 seat.

300
00:42:49,340 --> 00:42:51,740
Ari Grode
I know handsome and well- I know handsome and well-hung.

301
00:42:51,740 --> 00:42:52,900
Doug Reed
Hanson-Manuel Hung, and then back over left of their marionette.

302
00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:56,170
Ari Grode
I belated Buddy on that.

303
00:42:56,170 --> 00:43:09,820
Doug Reed
And the one free solo that just haunted me, I always wanted to put it in the mix for the Bridge Butchers routine, but never pull the trigger on it.

304
00:43:09,820 --> 00:43:20,570
Doug Reed
is Agent Orange, which is a fantastic trad route over there. And I thought about it and thought about it. It just never, never pulled the trigger on it.

305
00:43:20,570 --> 00:43:28,180
Doug Reed
It had just enough lacking and confidence about it to never, never strap it on.

306
00:43:28,180 --> 00:43:28,590
Ari Grode
Just kind of insecure or.

307
00:43:28,590 --> 00:43:33,520
Doug Reed
I wish I had, I wish I had, but just never did.

308
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:40,630
Ari Grode
It's just too insecure or.

309
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:45,380
Doug Reed
a i would i I would grade that route 11D and I just wouldn't want to climb quite that hard with no rope anymore.

310
00:43:45,380 --> 00:43:52,280
Ari Grode
Okay.

311
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:53,720
Doug Reed
um Probably my proudest, not necessarily hardest, but probably my proudest free solo at the new is um leave it to Jesus out at endless wall.

312
00:43:53,720 --> 00:44:06,740
Ari Grode
Gotcha.

313
00:44:06,740 --> 00:44:07,450
Doug Reed
which is an awesome 511 trad route.

314
00:44:07,450 --> 00:44:09,510
Ari Grode
Okay.

315
00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:12,170
Doug Reed
If you've never done that, one of the best of the grade at the new.

316
00:44:12,170 --> 00:44:14,090
Ari Grode
I haven't.

317
00:44:14,090 --> 00:44:19,000
Doug Reed
Unbelievably good, really good.

318
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,000
Robert
If I was to check it out.

319
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:21,410
Ari Grode
Yeah, amazing.

320
00:44:21,410 --> 00:44:22,500
Robert
Were, were you, I was just going to ask was, were you like super stoked on free soloing or was it just part of like the climbing that you were doing?

321
00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:36,080
Ari Grode
That's

322
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:43,550
Robert
Did you prefer to kind of push the grade in terms of first of sense that you were putting up?

323
00:44:43,550 --> 00:44:54,190
Doug Reed
Um, even when I was doing a lot of first descent, I'd have some free solo days. It probably became less of a focus though.

324
00:44:54,190 --> 00:44:55,650
Doug Reed
Um, mainly because, um, mainly because I was working so hard.

325
00:44:55,650 --> 00:45:01,300
Ari Grode
and and what time

326
00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:05,590
Doug Reed
Pardon me. I'm getting getting a cup of coffee. Um, when I, when I was in full sport climbing route production mode,

327
00:45:05,590 --> 00:45:14,690
Robert
No, you're good.

328
00:45:14,690 --> 00:45:19,840
Doug Reed
when it was basically a full-time job for me.

329
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:54,610
Doug Reed
Rest days didn't really exist. Rest day meant that I was out cutting trails and drilling routes. ay So when I was kind of at the highest level of route production, I probably could have been climbing a little harder if I hadn't had to work so hard on off days. Because it was those days were full day of labor, you know, full manual labor. um But that's what it's like to be

330
00:45:54,610 --> 00:46:05,690
Doug Reed
in a place where, like there were several years there where I would do as many as 100 first ascents in a year. That's a lot of work.

331
00:46:05,690 --> 00:46:06,530
Ari Grode
Oh my God.

332
00:46:06,530 --> 00:46:06,660
Doug Reed
Like I've, and I've even, it this this this is for my recollection, this only happened once, but I have drilled and climbed as many as three sport routes in a day.

333
00:46:06,660 --> 00:46:07,730
Ari Grode
but

334
00:46:07,730 --> 00:46:23,360
Robert
yeah

335
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:23,890
Doug Reed
that's a That's a lot of work.

336
00:46:23,890 --> 00:46:26,440
Robert
Oh my goodness. That is a lot of work.

337
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:26,990
Doug Reed
That's a that's a ton of work.

338
00:46:26,990 --> 00:46:27,920
Ari Grode
Yeah.

339
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:37,340
Robert
are Ari and I have one first ascent together in North Carolina at Sour Town and we used a hammer drill and I think it took us like three days together.

340
00:46:37,340 --> 00:46:38,260
Doug Reed
Uh-huh, uh-huh.

341
00:46:38,260 --> 00:46:49,250
Robert
So it's like the idea of putting up a hundred routes in one year is, I mean, there's a lot of oppressive things, but that is that is certainly on the list as well. That's that's incredible.

342
00:46:49,250 --> 00:46:50,570
Robert
What was, you kind of mentioned like you're sort of,

343
00:46:50,570 --> 00:47:03,190
Doug Reed
Well, I mean, that that's when that's when I was climbing full time. I mean, i in in in that um period, i I would consider myself a professional climber.

344
00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:05,920
Ari Grode
Ha ha ha.

345
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,980
Doug Reed
That was my job. you know So that's what I had to do.

346
00:47:07,980 --> 00:47:16,150
Robert
Yeah, I was going to ask about that. Like were you, were you, I mean, were you making money off of climbing at that point or were you having to do other work to support yourself and then just loading up?

347
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:28,740
Doug Reed
I was, it was, it was real dirtbag, but yeah, yeah. I i was able to, um you know, I was able to live off of it. Yeah.

348
00:47:28,740 --> 00:47:29,710
Robert
Can you, I'm sure there's a lot of people that'd be fascinated to hear like kind of in that era, like what was, what was like,

349
00:47:29,710 --> 00:47:37,400
Ari Grode
So.

350
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:41,300
Robert
What were a little more of the details about like kind of a base, basically being a professional climber at that time, like what was logistically.

351
00:47:41,300 --> 00:48:09,630
Doug Reed
Well, I mean, I had different arrangements with different manufacturers and whatnot as far as like, you know, so fairly meager stipend or a photo credit bonus. Like that was one of the arrangements I had with 510. 510 was a super long time sponsor of mine. And that was when 510 was something other than what it is now.

352
00:48:09,630 --> 00:48:45,740
Doug Reed
You know, that was kind of the brand, um which is definitely not the case now. You know, because I would have a lot of pick very regularly pictures of me climbing ah climbing first ascent in climbing and rocking ice. And they they had a picture in there, then they'd send me a check, meaning 5.10. Or um one of my best sponsors um ever, because it was For me, it was pretty easy to get free gear, but once you get beyond that just always kind of cool to get free gear, you need cash.

353
00:48:45,740 --> 00:48:53,260
Doug Reed
You need a way to like pay your rent and buy a beer at the end of the day. And that's the hard part.

354
00:48:53,260 --> 00:48:53,470
Ari Grode
but

355
00:48:53,470 --> 00:49:05,090
Doug Reed
And I've explained that to some friends that would like to make the jump to being a, quote, professional climber. It's like, free gear is fine, but those are just shiny little objects. You need cash.

356
00:49:05,090 --> 00:49:33,740
Doug Reed
you know And you're not really a professional climber until somebody's going to give you some money. you know and And so that's a jump. One of my best cash-wise sponsors was actually a company based in North Carolina, which was a um ah sock company, Thorlo Socks. And it was a North Carolina sock mill. And that was one of my one of my best sponsors as far as you know good, regular, monthly cash.

357
00:49:33,740 --> 00:50:04,380
Doug Reed
yeah coming in. But it it was pretty dirtbag. It was certainly not anything like what professional climbers can make now, you know. Like you'll hear Alex Hoddle talk about, not to put myself in his league by any means, you know, saying that his compensation is about like a ah ah ah a fairly well compensated dentist. Mine wasn't anything like that.

358
00:50:04,380 --> 00:50:20,130
Doug Reed
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. there Yeah. So you've heard it.

359
00:50:20,130 --> 00:50:32,300
Doug Reed
Yeah.

360
00:50:32,300 --> 00:51:16,840
Doug Reed
Yeah, I mean no certainly that Yeah, yeah and and that was that was part of the basis for the sponsorship for sure because I was never climbing the absolute hardest of Anybody let's just say in the United States never I was within a couple of letter grades or so, but but I it was you know doing significant climbing, whether that's first ascent, free solos. I've very seldom ever let anybody take pictures of me doing free solos. Back in the day when they're, I don't know if you guys would remember, they people used to come out with the climbing calendars, you know and they'd have like really

361
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:51,780
Doug Reed
like um Like Kevin Powell used to do a calendar every year. And there were a couple of those calendars that had some free solo shots on it. But for the most part, I would never get into that. I just needed to keep that motivation on the free solo stuff like really pure, not let it get intermingled with compensation and ego and stuff like that. you know i' In my mind, if it It could go in a bad direction if that got intermingled with with the free soloing.

362
00:51:51,780 --> 00:51:52,590
Ari Grode
Yeah, that was kind of a kind of a personal thing, I guess.

363
00:51:52,590 --> 00:51:55,150
Doug Reed
Yeah.

364
00:51:55,150 --> 00:51:57,420
Doug Reed
Yeah. Yeah. there's There's some people that I think have drifted in that other direction, motivation-wise, with free soloing that are no longer with us.

365
00:51:57,420 --> 00:52:06,820
Ari Grode
Yeah.

366
00:52:06,820 --> 00:52:07,110
Doug Reed
And thank goodness that's not me.

367
00:52:07,110 --> 00:52:14,570
Ari Grode
Yeah. Yeah, that's a that's a fine line to to walk. That's for sure.

368
00:52:14,570 --> 00:52:40,030
Doug Reed
Yeah, yeah. Something I was going to say, I was kind of starting to launch into a minute ago and got distracted, you know, is relating to the New River Gorge. I mentioned that Tommy Howard, and I went up there first with Tommy Howard, because Tommy had been up there before me, and

369
00:52:40,030 --> 00:52:54,130
Doug Reed
And he put me on to it and we started going up there because there's really kind of two distinct phases of route development at the new. There was that early on phase in like the early to mid 80s.

370
00:52:54,130 --> 00:53:40,920
Doug Reed
pre-sport climbing, pre-power drill, et cetera. We climbed a ton of first descents. Like sometimes we'd go, I think we had one day, we did like three mega classic trad route first descents at Beauty Mountain, like in one day, you know? um But once the what's the natural kind of lines were done, we were kind of finished. And I came back to, I wasn't living up there, but I came back home to North Carolina and just didn't go up there for years. Didn't go up there for for years until we got got a power drill. And that was when, I've told people this many, many times, that was when like,

371
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:58,650
Doug Reed
You know, we could probably take this power drill back up there in newer regards and some of that blank rock that we were seeing before might not be as blank as we thought it was. And that's exactly what we did. And that was the next phase. Like I said, Porter porter got a power drill before me.

372
00:53:58,650 --> 00:54:20,190
Doug Reed
And we started putting up routes down here, you know, some stuff like channel 12 out there, um, uh, sour town and stuff like that. And, um, yeah, we took the power drill up there to the new and did the very first, you know, uh, sport route up there, you know, that freaky style out there, uh, for important.

373
00:54:20,190 --> 00:54:20,760
Doug Reed
And so that was phase two, and it was wide open.

374
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,340
Ari Grode
Yeah.

375
00:54:24,340 --> 00:54:36,990
Doug Reed
we There were guys, ah Rick Thompson, Eric Hurst, and there were a crew of people that were just ravin' us for first ascent to be down there every weekend.

376
00:54:36,990 --> 00:55:04,600
Doug Reed
putting up first ascents there'd be who knows like between all the really uh you know avid first ascensionist uh mike arts and eddie bagoon those guys they were on it every weekend and you know hell you know a dozen to two dozen first ascents would go up in that in that region every weekend just about you know it's crazy

377
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,070
Ari Grode
Yeah, I wanted to ask.

378
00:55:08,070 --> 00:55:08,500
Doug Reed
yeah I was.

379
00:55:08,500 --> 00:55:09,150
Ari Grode
Yeah.

380
00:55:09,150 --> 00:55:12,920
Doug Reed
Yeah, absolutely. like Absolutely. like

381
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:25,870
Ari Grode
I wanted to, I wanted to ask, can you set the stage about what the New River Gorge was like back in those days? I mean, nowadays we know it as, you know, it's got great trails and great access and all these campgrounds and there's a whole community that's been built around it.

382
00:55:25,870 --> 00:55:30,780
Ari Grode
But I mean, what did it, what did it kind of look like, especially back when, you know, people were just establishing trad lines.

383
00:55:30,780 --> 00:55:48,800
Doug Reed
Well, none ah none of that infrastructure was there. if If you wanted there to be an access trail, you'd go cut that access trail. If you wanted ladders to get down to the base of the wall at Central Endless, you'd go out there and build those fricking ladders.

384
00:55:48,800 --> 00:56:10,940
Doug Reed
um Yeah, I mean, there weren't any parking lots. You just park on the shoulder of the road and cut a trail in there. you know um and And there'd be phases, we we'd discover a zone and just like, it'd just blow up. And there'd be times when, you know, there'd be some, there'd,

385
00:56:10,940 --> 00:56:46,610
Doug Reed
ah be some lack of sharing if you found ah found a really good spot, right? and And that was kind of the way with with Central Endless, man, that area around the honeymooners ladder, you know, there were some good climbers that were really doing a lot of stuff and they were out there at like Bubba City. and And I was just like, yeah, you guys just stay over there at Bubba City. I was like doing some work over here at Central Endless for a little bit.

386
00:56:46,610 --> 00:56:48,450
Doug Reed
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

387
00:56:48,450 --> 00:56:48,490
Ari Grode
I mean, what what was, what was that like?

388
00:56:48,490 --> 00:56:50,780
Doug Reed
But ah there were a lot of routes going up.

389
00:56:50,780 --> 00:57:02,490
Ari Grode
I mean, what was it like? Did you guys realize how much of a gem it was that you were working with? Like that rock is, you know, God's rock. It's some of the best rock on the planet.

390
00:57:02,490 --> 00:57:02,780
Ari Grode
um You know, what was that?

391
00:57:02,780 --> 00:57:04,880
Doug Reed
Yeah, no, no, I felt very privileged.

392
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,220
Ari Grode
What was that like looking up at that?

393
00:57:07,220 --> 00:57:44,320
Doug Reed
Yeah, very privileged for sure. you know And um you know I don't know how forward thinking Uh, we were, or the climbing equipment manufacturers were, you know, because initially there, that was before, or it's when gym climbing was just starting. Some of it, the first, our first sport climbs were just before gym climbing started or almost like coincided, but that's what,

394
00:57:44,320 --> 00:58:02,170
Doug Reed
Between development of sport climbing areas and gym climbing is what made climbing blow up. It made climbing what it is now. It made the numbers of climbers, whether they're gym climbers, outdoor climbers,

395
00:58:02,170 --> 00:58:26,070
Doug Reed
go up by a factor of probably 10, right? And that's what allowed a bunch of climbing equipment manufacturers to make money, gems to open up and make money. It was it was the gems and the explosion of sport climbing, right? If it had stayed, tried climbing,

396
00:58:26,070 --> 00:58:49,810
Doug Reed
the numbers would have not exploded. it It would be so much less accessible, right? Without like five nine or five 10 sport climbs, you've just like a huge number of people that are involved in climbing now would never be involved in climbing. I mean, that's my opinion.

397
00:58:49,810 --> 00:58:58,550
Ari Grode
Don't.

398
00:58:58,550 --> 00:59:18,300
Doug Reed
uh i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna Take a guess. If you guys want, you could probably dial it up on Mountain Project. Look for Freaky Stylie on Mountain Project at Fern Point, but I'm gonna say 85.

399
00:59:18,300 --> 00:59:33,740
Doug Reed
85. That could be totally off. My my brain, sometimes it's it's incredible what I can pull up 35 years later, and sometimes my brain's just mush as far as remembering that stuff. But I'm gonna say about 85.

400
00:59:33,740 --> 00:59:34,280
Doug Reed
um

401
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:34,390
Ari Grode
Okay.

402
00:59:34,390 --> 00:59:43,170
Robert
And, and about how long do you think like you were just like locked in on developing at the new, like from 85 until about, was it like two years?

403
00:59:43,170 --> 00:59:43,960
Doug Reed
um

404
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:46,190
Robert
Was it like you were there kind of for five years every season or was it a, okay.

405
00:59:46,190 --> 00:59:59,940
Doug Reed
Probably seven years, seven years yeah about seven years, um something like that. yeah you know and

406
00:59:59,940 --> 01:00:13,160
Doug Reed
And and yeahp ah at the peak there was when I was doing that like 100 routes a year. I sustained that for about three years.

407
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:13,550
Robert
Wow.

408
01:00:13,550 --> 01:00:38,610
Ari Grode
Doug, it I'd love to spend some time hearing a little bit about that, like your process. Um, you know, you're known for developing, we're talking about developing a lot of routes, but I think the thing that stands out the most to me is really the, the quality of the lines that often went up. You know, I, I did an exercise where I went through mountain project and I looked at like, you know, they, they give a top list of all the roots at the new, and I was just clicking through and, you know,

409
01:00:38,610 --> 01:00:46,510
Ari Grode
60 plus percent of them of the four-star routes or you have your name as the first ascensionist on there. I mean, were you did you have a vision? what What was that like?

410
01:00:46,510 --> 01:00:46,680
Doug Reed
Yeah.

411
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:52,780
Ari Grode
Were you looking for these specific types of lines? And what stood out to you that you knew it was going to be so good?

412
01:00:52,780 --> 01:01:13,190
Doug Reed
Well, I'll say a few things about that and I appreciate your recognizing that and. I agree with your assessment. I think it's totally accurate, and but um what I want to address is why that is.

413
01:01:13,190 --> 01:02:01,650
Doug Reed
I think one thing that happened when sport climbing started. Some first ascensionists lost sight of the basic principle of what a rock climb ought to be. It ought to be some kind of a weakness with either much harder climbing, bordering on either side of it, if not unclimbable rock on either side. Ideally, unclimbable rock for a good ways on either side of it. And if you lose sight of that basic principle, here's the line, this stuff is either unclimbable or much, much more difficult.

414
01:02:01,650 --> 01:02:31,090
Doug Reed
it's it You got to stick to that for the most part. Occasionally, it's OK to say, put this bolt out here and guide the climber in a direction that maybe it it it deviates a bit from that basic principle. you know Pull the climber in this direction because there's an experience to be had up there.

415
01:02:31,090 --> 01:02:59,630
Doug Reed
um you know But you don't want to overplay that. You don't want to overplay that. You want a natural line. And if you deviate from that too much, or if you use the bolt line to guide the climber, or if you just come top down and just drill a straight line of bolts and that's the route, or if you start squeezing stuff in too tight, you know all that is problematic.

416
01:02:59,630 --> 01:03:03,900
Doug Reed
and

417
01:03:03,900 --> 01:03:26,260
Doug Reed
but I took the route development really seriously and thought about it real hard and thought about it like it was a job, you know, and it was my obligation as I saw it to make the route development as high quality as possible.

418
01:03:26,260 --> 01:03:30,210
Doug Reed
I don't know that that's

419
01:03:30,210 --> 01:03:54,670
Ari Grode
I certainly think you've succeeded in that. I mean, people often, you know I'll read on forums or and comments on on routes. I mean, people use your routes as absolute benchmarks ah for their own progress, but I mean, some of the lines are just, every time I climb ah ah you know a new line at the new, say it's like out of the bag or disturbance or any of these, I'm like, man, that is just one of the best routes I've ever climbed.

420
01:03:54,670 --> 01:04:01,140
Ari Grode
And of course, you know, I look and your name seems to be associated with it. So, uh, I mean, y'all were just picking picking plums and, uh, putting up some just amazing lines.

421
01:04:01,140 --> 01:04:04,350
Robert
Thank you.

422
01:04:04,350 --> 01:04:04,860
Ari Grode
Um, I mean, what was the, just like, doesn't get better than that.

423
01:04:04,860 --> 01:04:11,440
Doug Reed
Yeah, that disturbance, that's pretty awesome, right?

424
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:33,590
Doug Reed
Yeah, super cool. and's And and that that's what I really like. That is to find a zone with like, one route is fine, but I usually wasn't looking so much for one like project thing. I was looking for a zone with some, you know, multiple good good routes in there.

425
01:04:33,590 --> 01:04:35,600
Doug Reed
um That, that, that.

426
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:35,730
Ari Grode
I think a good example of that.

427
01:04:35,730 --> 01:04:40,110
Robert
I mean, that makes sense. if you're If you're putting up three in a day, you gotta have a zone. You can't just be hitting one hike and hiking a mile down, then finding the next one, you know?

428
01:04:40,110 --> 01:04:45,230
Doug Reed
yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

429
01:04:45,230 --> 01:04:45,610
Ari Grode
I was going to say the, I mean, a good, a good example of that is the whole at K-more, you know, it seems like that whole areas you kind of developed on your own.

430
01:04:45,610 --> 01:04:54,310
Doug Reed
That, um.

431
01:04:54,310 --> 01:04:54,690
Ari Grode
Do you mind diving into that a little bit, what that was like?

432
01:04:54,690 --> 01:05:04,810
Doug Reed
Yeah, yeah, there were some there were some scrap there were some scraps left over. But yeah, I'm like, ah this is all mine. Yeah. and And it wasn't until I pretty much had that stuff equipped and good to go that I even told anybody about that place.

433
01:05:04,810 --> 01:05:11,920
Ari Grode
and

434
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:16,990
Doug Reed
And that's when I... um

435
01:05:16,990 --> 01:05:28,960
Doug Reed
Took Rick Thompson down there, Rico. Took Rico down there and just handed to him that out of the bag and Rico Suave. as says like dude this This is be the next couple of seasons.

436
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:29,280
Robert
Rico Suave.

437
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:32,940
Doug Reed
and This is all for you. You take that. That's your style.

438
01:05:32,940 --> 01:05:33,320
Robert
ah

439
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:52,010
Doug Reed
and ah Yeah, I think. Yeah, it was. um Yeah, it was a big grab for sure. um But I'd do that if I found a really good zone, I'd keep it a little quiet till I had but shot all the bolts in there and was kind of good to go.

440
01:05:52,010 --> 01:05:54,740
Doug Reed
um

441
01:05:54,740 --> 01:05:55,290
Doug Reed
Yeah, out there.

442
01:05:55,290 --> 01:05:57,180
Ari Grode
And, and, and was the, yeah I was, I was going to ask, I mean, was, was the vision more to just develop or were you trying to kind of push the limits a little bit, like in terms of your own personal difficulty or I guess raising the standard that existed within the region?

443
01:05:57,180 --> 01:06:20,240
Doug Reed
No, go ahead.

444
01:06:20,240 --> 01:07:04,850
Doug Reed
I would I would say both I would say both um you know I'd have some pride usually in a season I'd have one or two projects say um but then a lot of just quality and it didn't matter you know I back then ah I usually wouldn't and at the new Other than if you went to a totally fresh area, like up at the lake or something, for the most part, at the new proper, not the New River Gorge region, but new proper, all the 510s had already been climbed trad. That's why actually at the new, there's really not any 510 sport routes, because that stuff had all been climbed trad.

445
01:07:04,850 --> 01:07:05,420
Ari Grode
Mm hmm.

446
01:07:05,420 --> 01:07:39,420
Doug Reed
you know Now they found some easy sports stuff to do up there at the lake, but that was years later. So I was pretty much just doing like, you know, when I was in full sport production mode, just 11s and above, but but I'd be doing those and I'd usually have a project like when I was doing something like Disturba, it's a green envy next to it. That was probably the same season where my project out there was 13B,

447
01:07:39,420 --> 01:08:11,820
Doug Reed
stiff 13B called Sportster. which is a just premium line. Excellent example of singular line unclimbable rock on either side. Just amazing. Another similar example to that, it looks a little similar. It's a little steeper by a couple of grades. Let me say something like slash and burn at Butcher's Branch, 12D. Just there's the line.

448
01:08:11,820 --> 01:08:20,140
Doug Reed
pretty much blank rock on either side. You know, that's what you want. That's what you want. um

449
01:08:20,140 --> 01:08:24,720
Ari Grode
Yeah, that that's that slash and burns got to be I've never sent it but i've I've been on it before that's got to be one of the best routes on the on the on the planet.

450
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:27,670
Doug Reed
Amazing, amazing. And yes, yes.

451
01:08:27,670 --> 01:08:31,150
Ari Grode
It's amazing.

452
01:08:31,150 --> 01:08:54,000
Doug Reed
And cro probably the best route of that grade sport route that I ever put up. um And and same same with that one Sportster at Beauty Mountain. you know Just quality, just just can't get any better. But yeah, Slash and Burn, it's pretty awesome.

453
01:08:54,000 --> 01:09:02,100
Ari Grode
You want to take us through any of like your some of those real real cutting edge routes like confirmation, fuel injector, um you know the one you mentioned at beauty.

454
01:09:02,100 --> 01:09:03,210
Doug Reed
Yeah, yeah, yep, yep.

455
01:09:03,210 --> 01:09:03,440
Ari Grode
like what was that like Was there a lot that had to go into those?

456
01:09:03,440 --> 01:09:16,930
Doug Reed
So it's fuel injector around the corner from Slash and Burn. Yeah, so where when I was doing routes like that, I'd put in that category as well.

457
01:09:16,930 --> 01:09:22,570
Doug Reed
um Down there at Central Endless, at the honeymooners ladder, in addition to confirmation, would be um satanic verses, which is on the arret, just left of quinzana plus.

458
01:09:22,570 --> 01:09:31,130
Robert
Thank you.

459
01:09:31,130 --> 01:09:34,360
Ari Grode
Okay.

460
01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:47,850
Doug Reed
um Yeah, so I'd be doing, route production on stuff and a little easier than that, but I'd be taking goes on those things. ah Confirmation was a little earlier on.

461
01:09:47,850 --> 01:09:59,020
Doug Reed
I didn't yet, when I did that, and you could look up the year of the FA, because I don't remember, but I wasn't yet living at the new then. I was coming up from Charlotte.

462
01:09:59,020 --> 01:10:01,380
Doug Reed
I had not moved up there yet. um That took,

463
01:10:01,380 --> 01:10:05,770
Ari Grode
what I want to say it was like 89 when I looked.

464
01:10:05,770 --> 01:10:08,010
Doug Reed
I think earlier, I think earlier than that, 89, I was living at the new.

465
01:10:08,010 --> 01:10:10,730
Ari Grode
It was okay.

466
01:10:10,730 --> 01:10:20,310
Doug Reed
I think it would have been more like 85 or six, but I could be wrong. yeah But yeah, so I'd be doing route production, but then I'd have a project and I'd be trying to send something like that.

467
01:10:20,310 --> 01:10:26,850
Ari Grode
Okay.

468
01:10:26,850 --> 01:10:53,730
Doug Reed
um um Satanic versus that was a little later on. um project, and that was actually a somewhat of a variation on Porter's route, Get Thee Behind Me Satan, which started on Jesus and Tequila and went up and right and caught the arat and shot up to the top.

469
01:10:53,730 --> 01:11:37,970
Doug Reed
ah pretty brilliant striking line and all I did was came straight up underneath so rather than starting on Jesus ah jesus and tequila and moving out onto there I just shot straight up underneath there um had to fortify some holds on that. Porter had had to fortify one hold and that's something else we're going to talk about is that transition toward that which came a little bit after the initial sport climbing stuff. But um Porter had to fortify one hold on his and then I had to fortify a couple of holds on on

470
01:11:37,970 --> 01:12:04,060
Doug Reed
on what became satanic verses um to make that go. And that was a real important step in that, you know, when you start getting into kind of higher grades, it's very possible oftentimes if that route sheds one hold, you might erase the thing, right? It might just be gone.

471
01:12:04,060 --> 01:12:05,960
Doug Reed
right So the introduction of fortifying of holds was real important.

472
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:09,560
Ari Grode
Yeah.

473
01:12:09,560 --> 01:12:25,390
Doug Reed
um and And like I said, Tim's even totally on board with that these days. And but and part of it is because they they've had ruined

474
01:12:25,390 --> 01:13:12,060
Doug Reed
routes at Moore's Wall because of that. Things like Mighty Mouse and stuff like that um or that route of ah my importers channel 12 at Sour Town. It was a much better route back when it was 12a or whatever because now It's shed holds and it's like, you go up and there's this, and I don't know, cause I haven't done it since it holds broke off, but you know, you just go up there and then it's got this like, you know, V9 crux, you know? And so it lost all continuity. Continuity, that's another real important factor in route quality. It's gotta have continuity.

475
01:13:12,060 --> 01:13:36,970
Doug Reed
All right, there's not any four or five star routes that just have this just slap down crux and much easier climbing above and below. You know, it just can't. I mean, there are routes that have that that are good, but your best routes aren't going to be that way. It needs to have some continuousness to it.

476
01:13:36,970 --> 01:13:37,830
Ari Grode
Yeah.

477
01:13:37,830 --> 01:14:05,680
Robert
Yeah, it's it's funny you mentioned that. I think there was a ah guy who used to climb in the gym that Ari and I used to climb at. And like I think he was on a boulder at Moors. I think it was maybe Master Lock. And then it ripped off. And someone commented FA, like final ascent, because no one's ever going to do that again on that one. But um yeah, the the reinforcement is certainly something that kind of making sure that that climb lasts and like people get that opportunity to climb it how it's originally intended is is an interesting concept.

478
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:28,260
Doug Reed
Absolutely. it ah Absolutely. And, and I, I believe probably the first route that I did that with the first one I'm remembering right now, quince on a plus quince on a plus has four or five holes and

479
01:14:28,260 --> 01:14:43,890
Doug Reed
That round is just, I mean, you stand underneath it, it's singular line, it's just jaw dropping. And, you know, it would just have been a shame to have that thing shed holes and either end up, you know,

480
01:14:43,890 --> 01:15:01,230
Doug Reed
ruining the continuity or erasing it or something. But that's the first one I remember fortifying on um and then later on and now with the fortifying you can use the glue like the same glue that you use for gluing bolts on it and it works even better.

481
01:15:01,230 --> 01:15:32,560
Doug Reed
um What we were using was PC7, which was real thick, it was really highly viscous, and it was hard to use it, um hard to hard to conceal, because I i think with glue, you wanna make it as you know inconspicuous as possible, not because you're trying to sneak around and nobody knows there's glue on there. It just makes it more aesthetic, the less obvious there is glue. um I'll say, for example,

482
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:59,630
Doug Reed
the great Now deceased climber Brian McRae he put up a bunch of hard routes out at the Cirque at the new um but ah frankly his gluing was Pretty sloppy at times because there's a lot of glue out there on routes. Um, but Now with there there's better glue to use for sure

483
01:15:59,630 --> 01:15:59,660
Robert
Make sense.

484
01:15:59,660 --> 01:16:13,380
Ari Grode
Yeah, good a good good example of that is the Fugitive, Porter's route, the Fugitive at Sorrowtown. You know that, I think it's that Crux, the dino jug you catch, would have never known, but I took a real close look at it.

485
01:16:13,380 --> 01:16:23,910
Ari Grode
You can see there's a little bit of glue holding that together, but whoever did it, whoever glued that on there did an excellent job because you can't even tell, but perfect perfect example of, man, if that hold goes, is does that route even go?

486
01:16:23,910 --> 01:16:25,620
Ari Grode
And it's such a beautiful striking King line there.

487
01:16:25,620 --> 01:16:37,500
Doug Reed
Oh, I know, I know, I know. And the harder routes, you know, it's just the nature of the climbing. email You know, you could lose one hold and it could erase the route.

488
01:16:37,500 --> 01:16:37,970
Ari Grode
Yeah.

489
01:16:37,970 --> 01:16:50,470
Doug Reed
I broke off when doing um Dial 911 at Central Endless. I broke off a hold.

490
01:16:50,470 --> 01:17:44,770
Doug Reed
It's a foothold and um I was pretty certain I found it on the ground um and I genuinely and honestly was pretty sure because it it seemed to fit back in place as though it was the hold and I put it back on there. And some people questioned that, but um I pretty sincerely felt like what I found on the ground was the hold that was there, but I could never, certainly ever No, 100% for sure if that was the case, but I'm pretty sure it was.

491
01:17:44,770 --> 01:17:48,610
Doug Reed
Yeah, absolutely.

492
01:17:48,610 --> 01:18:08,440
Doug Reed
Yeah, absolutely. Porter's younger than me, and um you know he was kind of a younger sort of protege. And we kind of together learned how to sport climb or learned how to develop sport climbs. We really did that together. He got a drill before I got a drill.

493
01:18:08,440 --> 01:18:12,340
Doug Reed
and um

494
01:18:12,340 --> 01:18:35,520
Doug Reed
And I was at that time climbing a little harder than Porter. It wasn't too long before he was climbing harder than me. Certainly by the time he moved to the red and he's the guy that made that Red River Gorge happen. I'm just going to say before he went over there and started putting up but sport climbs, they were climbing some kind of

495
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:56,810
Doug Reed
kind of second tier quality tried stuff over there. He he was the guy that made it happen over there. And part of the reason he did is I was so greedy, I just wouldn't hardly give him any elbow room. I wouldn't give him any real estate. He'd drill a root. Like channel 12 would be a perfect example, poor drill that.

496
01:18:56,810 --> 01:19:31,060
Doug Reed
you know if he didn't send it after a couple of goes i just like man you need to let me give a go on that and i would just steal roots from him and shit i was just ruthless just a horrible person and and And it pushed him to go over there in the red, and he's the guy that went over there and made it happen. not it It definitely wasn't me. I mean, I went over there and put up a few roots, but he's the guy that made that happen. But he was younger than me, and um he was super motivated and weep.

497
01:19:31,060 --> 01:19:56,810
Doug Reed
We just started putting up roots like Matt. And that about that time is when Tim and I unfortunately had a real parting of the ways. And part of it was Porter would bait Tim. He like nothing more than just poked him in the eye. And it all came to a head. There was one specific day

498
01:19:56,810 --> 01:20:10,100
Doug Reed
And a lot of things went into this. It was like, ah you know, kind of crazy. So we were at Moore's wall. Tim, he' that guy's a badass.

499
01:20:10,100 --> 01:20:20,300
Doug Reed
Tim, that morning, did the first free solo vascular disaster. I don't know if you know that route, but super hats off, very respectable.

500
01:20:20,300 --> 01:20:21,050
Ari Grode
Yeah.

501
01:20:21,050 --> 01:20:45,810
Doug Reed
Not his first, but the first time anybody ever free soloed dad. So he was pretty pumped up, I am sure. And Porter and I rolled up, and I know Tim knew we had the power drill. And just to poke Tim in the eye, Porter goes, Tim, what would be the easiest way to get up to the top of this cliff?

502
01:20:45,810 --> 01:21:18,430
Doug Reed
obviously implying how can we get up there and drop a rope down and power drill some shit top down just to be an ass a and Tim makes this face looking as though he's smelling dog shit. And he goes, I have no recommendations. And Porter proceeds to go up there, drop a rope, and we drill this sport route, would then we name the recommendation.

503
01:21:18,430 --> 01:21:50,560
Doug Reed
And it wasn't probably three days before Tim came back and chopped that shit. And also, We did just super badass first descent that day of a route that just also to poke Tim in the eye that Porter names Filet-O-Fish, which Tim even today says is one of the best trad routes of the grade at Moore's Wall, 12A, and it is super good.

504
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:52,740
Doug Reed
And we did Filet-O-Fish first descent that day and the recommendation.

505
01:21:52,740 --> 01:21:56,360
Ari Grode
Oh yeah.

506
01:21:56,360 --> 01:22:08,640
Doug Reed
So a lot of shit went down on that day, including Tim's free solo on VD, vascular disaster.

507
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:09,970
Doug Reed
So there was a lot of testosterone flowing amongst us.

508
01:22:09,970 --> 01:22:25,290
Ari Grode
ah

509
01:22:25,290 --> 01:22:32,060
Ari Grode
No, actually, I haven't. No, I always fall at that crux over and over again.

510
01:22:32,060 --> 01:23:02,140
Doug Reed
How about Tim at Porter asking Tim how to get up to the top to drop the rope down We you know even Tim can laugh at this now Porter also along that time not on that day but um down there at the north end we used to repel off this tree a dead tree and a gully that had a bunch of tad on there and Porter decided to go out there and with the power drill and um

511
01:23:02,140 --> 01:23:26,170
Doug Reed
drill a two bolt rappel anchor. Well, Tim goes out there. Tim goes out there and chops the rappel anchor and put a fresh sling on the dead tree, re-establishing the legitimate rappel anchor. And even he can see the humor in that now.

512
01:23:26,170 --> 01:23:37,420
Ari Grode
Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, I mean, it's that's that's a golden nugget of history there. And that sounds like that day was kind of famous or infamous, however you want to look at it. Yeah, it's funny, because yeah Tim loves that filet of fish route.

513
01:23:37,420 --> 01:23:37,980
Ari Grode
And it's funny to hear the the history of it.

514
01:23:37,980 --> 01:23:42,580
Doug Reed
Oh, no, he says it's one of the best of the grade now. And it was just totally, you know,

515
01:23:42,580 --> 01:23:46,180
Ari Grode
I mean, it is. It's amazing.

516
01:23:46,180 --> 01:24:06,100
Doug Reed
right. And so, so to kind of kind of move elsewhere geographically, ah around that time is where we when we started in the winter going down to Alabama. um My brother and I,

517
01:24:06,100 --> 01:24:37,930
Doug Reed
for the most part, discovered. sport climbing Little River and that's a that's a wintertime cliff that's when we started going down there and Porter was in on that and we did some pretty greedy route development before we kind of let the cat out of the bag on that one but once again it blew up after people really found out you know about lizard wall and you know the tomb suba area and all that stuff and um

518
01:24:37,930 --> 01:25:02,010
Doug Reed
Yeah, we went down there and we were just cleaning up on super, super steep sandstone. It's a little lesser quality stone than the Chattanooga area. We're talking about geographically, if you just go diagonally south and west, you know, less than a hundred miles from Chad, you know, that same sandstone belt goes all the way down through there.

519
01:25:02,010 --> 01:25:22,360
Doug Reed
and then he gets a little river. And it's a little lesser rock quality than ah up around Chattanooga, but it's also steeper. Basically the bottom of the cliffs falling off, so it's making it just steep as hell. And um so what it sacrifices in slightly, don't get me wrong, it's not Charles.

520
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:51,890
Doug Reed
But slight sacrificing in rock quality, it makes up for in steepness. It's just crazy, crazy steep. And we're doing all kinds of stuff down there. You know, the initial zone that I developed down there that includes right in the middle of Tumsuba, which we can talk about that in a minute, that's a 512 that was originally a trad route that I did and later I retro bolted it. But then you've got,

521
01:25:51,890 --> 01:26:10,070
Doug Reed
right of their like powder keg and blue sling and um back left of their Majosha. There's some video footage of me doing Majosha that's pretty interesting, pretty early on um a climbing video of that. Really good climbing.

522
01:26:10,070 --> 01:27:03,560
Doug Reed
um That's a great zone, and then that lizard wall is just stacked. You can climb a lizard wall, it's capped by a huge roof, and you can climb down there in a torrential downfall. um Just amazing cliff, and it is stacked. There's one sport route after another. Now people have kind of filled in, and we've gotten a little tight. There's definitely some squeeze jobs that I'm not super psyched about, but there's a route pretty much. That that wall is it's kind of like if you took a football field and turned it up on its edge and overhung it about five degrees that would be lizard wall and then put a big ass roof over the top of it and there's a route every every 20 feet it's just loaded just loaded

523
01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:03,850
Doug Reed
And really really only one route.

524
01:27:03,850 --> 01:27:05,840
Ari Grode
and and And what was the what was the relative time frame of this?

525
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:34,070
Doug Reed
that it There is a route down there that does breach that roof that I put up. And I'll just say, I put up a lot of routes that I named. i they i always I think I have some really good route names. I'll just say that. But there are a lot of routes that I didn't name. But um just to be clear, I never named any routes after myself. So if you see routes with my name on it,

526
01:27:34,070 --> 01:28:21,810
Doug Reed
in guidebooks. I didn't name any of those things. I didn't name any of those things. So there's two routes down there, at Lizard Wall. There's they're Short Dug and Long Dug, I think they call it. And I didn't name either one of those, but I did put those up. And people do a really cool link up now. They do short dug and then link into long dug and go out the big roof. And I think that might be the hardest route at Lizard Wall now. I've i've never done it. It'd be too hard for me. um But it's pretty cool that they they figured that out.

527
01:28:21,810 --> 01:28:28,890
Doug Reed
Yeah, exactly. Yep, yep, yep, yep, exactly.

528
01:28:28,890 --> 01:28:46,840
Doug Reed
It's mega. It's mega. It's cool. And that's an example of the bunch of bolts next to gear. Yeah, but you go back right in there. um So they call that area Tomb Suba area. So Tomb Suba starts out of the back of this cave.

529
01:28:46,840 --> 01:29:18,390
Doug Reed
Give you an idea how steep Tum Tsuba is. And it was originally tried, originally tried when I put it up. yeah um It overhangs about 30 or 35 feet and about 65 feet. Kind of hard to wrap your head around that one, right? And and like I said, it was, yeah. So originally that was gear. So I put that up.

530
01:29:18,390 --> 01:29:49,730
Doug Reed
And, It just sat there for years, nobody would do it. So I just like, the heck with it, I'm just gonna turn it into a sport route. Because it was just such a fine piece of climbing in the middle of this sport climbing zone. I mean, nobody would even take gear down there, you know, ah you know, trad gear. So it was just such a, it was a missing link in this otherwise really fabulous zone of climbing. And it was just such a shame that people were going down there

531
01:29:49,730 --> 01:30:02,470
Doug Reed
and just knocking down all these sport routes and that thing just sat there. And so I just, it's like, oh well, whatever, jam the bulletin and it's done, it's mega classic.

532
01:30:02,470 --> 01:30:07,150
Ari Grode
Wow, that's amazing. So what timeframe was this?

533
01:30:07,150 --> 01:30:07,300
Ari Grode
Do you remember?

534
01:30:07,300 --> 01:30:34,050
Doug Reed
um I'm gonna say around, Man, I have such crummy memory with this stuff. I'm gonna say around 86, but I could be totally wrong. And my brother was real involved with that development too. He was living in Mississippi. We're from Mississippi and he'd moved back there from Colorado. So he'd be coming over there like on weekends and stuff.

535
01:30:34,050 --> 01:30:48,930
Doug Reed
and um and we'd be developing routes. And there was other guys that were really strong near getting in on that. Jersey Jeff Gruenberg, man, he was living down and in Jacksonville, Florida.

536
01:30:48,930 --> 01:31:15,560
Doug Reed
and talk about driven, he would drive from Jacksonville to climb up there in the sandstone belt every weekend, year after year. And we're talking like about eight hours round trip. He'd drive up, get off work on Friday, drive up there Friday night, drive back, getting back to Jacksonville like one or two a.m. every Sunday night. Just obsessed.

537
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:36,730
Doug Reed
And um yeah, just a bunch of other guys just really, really driven to put up routes for sure. And um another guy that wasn't really in, was not in on the development there at um Little River, but Jesse Guthrie.

538
01:31:36,730 --> 01:32:05,100
Doug Reed
who is a guy that was from Huntsville, but he moved to Germany and he was hanging out with that crowd with Wolfgang Gulich and whatnot. When those guys were developing training for climbing, like they were the first guys to do any kind of training for climbing beyond just like some pull ups. And, you know, he and Kurt Albert and and Jesse went over there and was hanging out with those guys and like,

539
01:32:05,100 --> 01:32:23,310
Doug Reed
These little homemade fingerboards, you know, hang boards, like hanging off some little shallow one and two finger pockets and stuff. And Jesse came back and he was really, he had some power like none of us had. And he did what was thought at that time. He was climbing, he was Huntsville guy.

540
01:32:23,310 --> 01:33:18,060
Doug Reed
So he was climbing up a yellow glove and he put up what was probably the hardest route very possibly in the eastern United States Called rainbow warrior around that time and there's a real classic photograph. I'm I have to share with you guys sometime ah that I took of my brother Maurice Jesse and um and Jeff Jersey's f Gruenberg sitting at the bottom of a Jesse's ah first ascent rainbow warrior, which was the hardest route in the U.S. at the time, probably. And Jeff would go on to a year or so later climb what was maybe the hardest route in the Eastern U.S., which was his route at Buzzard Point, I think it was, up in Chattanooga area, Pia Ta,

541
01:33:18,060 --> 01:33:55,560
Doug Reed
named after that Michelangelo sculpture that was defiled with a hammer because alluding to the fact that Jeff's route is very much manufactured. Not 100% manufactured, but there's definitely manufacturing on that. Drill pockets and some chipping and stuff like that. And he was he very upfront about it. It was definitely manufactured about. It's been downgraded, my understanding is. um He thought at the time that it was the first 514 in the Eastern United States. It's been downgraded. ah

542
01:33:55,560 --> 01:34:12,900
Doug Reed
uh maybe 13c now but at the time you know late 80s 13c really meant something you know and in those kind of grades you know you got to take that To fully appreciate those kind of grades, you got to link it to the era.

543
01:34:12,900 --> 01:34:28,550
Doug Reed
Link it to the date, you know? I mean, like my brother Maurice flashed at 12A at Yellow Creek Falls, a thing called Grand Dragon, when flashing of 12A really meant something, you know?

544
01:34:28,550 --> 01:34:30,740
Doug Reed
Whereas now, you know, nobody thinks much about that.

545
01:34:30,740 --> 01:34:32,680
Ari Grode
to

546
01:34:32,680 --> 01:34:43,660
Doug Reed
But when you... You personally probably had never met a person that had flashed to twelve a 12A. It's like, wow, that's something.

547
01:34:43,660 --> 01:34:55,520
Ari Grode
Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. So to you guys, was that, did that coincide the development down at a little river Canyon coincide with the new, like, was it kind of like, okay, we're spending the winter at little river and then going back to the new or.

548
01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:59,740
Doug Reed
and did later It did yeah later on. ye so i'd be living it When I moved to the new, bit of a routine there.

549
01:34:59,740 --> 01:35:03,900
Ari Grode
Okay.

550
01:35:03,900 --> 01:35:22,020
Doug Reed
So the new is not very good in the summer, mid-summer and mid-winter, right? So I was calling it full-time. So the winter routine would be um maybe but he go to Waco tanks for a bit.

551
01:35:22,020 --> 01:35:32,490
Doug Reed
um Boulder get real strong and spend also part of the winter at Little River developing routes. So that'd be kind of the routine for several seasons.

552
01:35:32,490 --> 01:35:33,140
Ari Grode
Okay.

553
01:35:33,140 --> 01:35:44,520
Doug Reed
The summer routine when it got just super sweltering if new would be go to rifle, go out to Colorado and go to rifle and climb sport climb mid-summer.

554
01:35:44,520 --> 01:36:10,980
Doug Reed
and know and do that, you know, get away from the condition. So yeah, I usually wouldn't ride out the winter. I'd sometimes spend some time in the winter doing a bunch of drilling, doing some manual labor, cutting some trails and jamming in bolts. Like I did a bunch of development one winter in advance of the spring season up into upper meadow.

555
01:36:10,980 --> 01:36:11,910
Doug Reed
And unfortunately, the documentation is super lacking on the development up there.

556
01:36:11,910 --> 01:36:12,810
Ari Grode
yeah Okay, yeah.

557
01:36:12,810 --> 01:36:18,850
Robert
Yep.

558
01:36:18,850 --> 01:36:31,110
Doug Reed
And I'll just say, there's a bunch of people that tried to take credit for stuff as first to sense. They'd be going like, oh, Doug drill this, but he never did it. That's kind of bullshit.

559
01:36:31,110 --> 01:36:49,560
Doug Reed
um And I was out of climbing after after I drill those and and let them that that spring kind of got out of climbing was totally out of touch and there's a lot of that this poorly documented. I did a lot of stuff up there that people shouldn't have been claiming.

560
01:36:49,560 --> 01:37:28,410
Doug Reed
that, oh, Doug drilled this, but he never did it. It's like, really? It's 12D, 13A? What makes you think I didn't do that? you know I would have knocked that out in a couple of goes. And so, I don't know, in retrospect, when I go up there, um yeah that was a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I like those cracks, and I'm real proud of what I did up there. But the lack of documentation kind of I don't know, hurts a bit, but you know, ah I don't really have much to prove, so of whatever.

561
01:37:28,410 --> 01:37:33,310
Ari Grode
Yeah, I think you're your legacy speaks for speaks for itself, certainly.

562
01:37:33,310 --> 01:38:04,680
Doug Reed
Yeah, yeah, but that that was a big it and I may have stayed there all winter that that winter when I developed those cracks up because there had been almost no action above the bridge on the upper and I did a lot of drilling that winter and I may have stayed at the new all winter drilling that year. I don't remember there may be some may have been some time down it down in Alabama but definitely didn't go to Waco that year.

563
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:14,970
Robert
You mentioned you kind of got out of climbing for a little bit there. Was there any reason why that happened? And like, how long were you out of climbing for? I mean, it's interesting.

564
01:38:14,970 --> 01:38:15,960
Doug Reed
Yeah, yeah, so I quit climbing for about, so um this year would be 52 years since I started climbing.

565
01:38:15,960 --> 01:38:25,930
Robert
like

566
01:38:25,930 --> 01:38:36,780
Doug Reed
So I started climbing at 73. But yeah, I took ah about, I basically didn't climb at all for about 18 years. Yeah, so interesting kind of sequence of events.

567
01:38:36,780 --> 01:38:40,270
Robert
Oh, wow.

568
01:38:40,270 --> 01:38:54,520
Doug Reed
So I was i was working a ah project Up at the Cirque. So I've discovered the Cirque and put the first roots up up there. That's the um the upper upper end of Endless Wall.

569
01:38:54,520 --> 01:38:55,400
Doug Reed
Put the first roots in up there.

570
01:38:55,400 --> 01:38:58,050
Robert
ah About when was this?

571
01:38:58,050 --> 01:39:01,200
Doug Reed
This would have been late 80s, early 90s, something like that.

572
01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:03,060
Robert
Okay.

573
01:39:03,060 --> 01:39:13,980
Doug Reed
um Early 90s, yeah. um Early 90s. and um

574
01:39:13,980 --> 01:39:18,750
Doug Reed
Yeah, yeah, probably 93 93.

575
01:39:18,750 --> 01:39:18,850
Robert
Okay.

576
01:39:18,850 --> 01:39:32,260
Doug Reed
Um, because I want to say that 92 92 was probably the last year that I did 100 first to sense in a year. It was really high production years.

577
01:39:32,260 --> 01:40:13,280
Doug Reed
And so I have a project up there called the crouch is what the name became. I didn't name it that but it's just kind of what it got called and um I want to hang that thing dozens of times over and over again, you know, and there's really two kinds of one hangs there's one hang that you hang and you might as well set up a hanging belay and just break it into two pieces or there's a hang you fall off and get back on and scoot to the top like you're this close and that's where I was I'd go up there fall off that thing get back on boom take you to the top over and over and over again

578
01:40:13,280 --> 01:40:40,650
Doug Reed
Well, my girlfriend at the time and I were going to move to Australia for a year, and the date to move to Australia was coming and coming, and I was the one hanging that thing over and a and over and Finally, the date came to jump on the plane and move to Australia, and I just, boom, quit climbing. Never sent the project, quit climbing, done, over.

579
01:40:40,650 --> 01:40:54,510
Doug Reed
and started doing ultra endurance trail sports, trump ah endurance mountain biking and running and stuffve stuff like that and just quit. Done.

580
01:40:54,510 --> 01:40:55,340
Doug Reed
I think initially they were grading the crouch 14A, and that had been a goal for me.

581
01:40:55,340 --> 01:41:01,050
Ari Grode
Can you

582
01:41:01,050 --> 01:41:13,020
Doug Reed
And everything I've ever been super passionate about, it's kind of been a pattern. I've always had ah had a that ultimately I didn't quite reach, you know?

583
01:41:13,020 --> 01:41:16,500
Doug Reed
Maybe I was reaching too high, but you know, it was the same with endurance sports and never climbed 514, just never happened.

584
01:41:16,500 --> 01:41:21,810
Robert
Yeah. Yeah.

585
01:41:21,810 --> 01:41:34,930
Doug Reed
You know, and, you know, that's fine. That's fine. um I'm comfortable with that. And now I think that route has been downgraded to 13 D, but, you know, I'm pretty proud of that.

586
01:41:34,930 --> 01:41:38,400
Doug Reed
You know, I had to go at it. You know, I, I, you know, in my max, you know, I was climbed 13 plus never, never got to five 14, but that's all right.

587
01:41:38,400 --> 01:41:45,940
Robert
For sure.

588
01:41:45,940 --> 01:42:05,430
Doug Reed
And, you know, you got to, once again, you got to take that. in with the era, 13 plus or 14 minus or whatever kind of meant something different 30 plus years ago.

589
01:42:05,430 --> 01:42:07,570
Doug Reed
you know It's a different beast now.

590
01:42:07,570 --> 01:42:12,100
Ari Grode
Oh, absolutely. I mean, y'all were pushing the boundary of what people thought was physically possible on rock.

591
01:42:12,100 --> 01:42:18,480
Doug Reed
Yeah, 14A 35 years ago,

592
01:42:18,480 --> 01:42:22,740
Doug Reed
That was about as hard as it got, you know? You know, maybe.

593
01:42:22,740 --> 01:42:25,350
Ari Grode
Yeah.

594
01:42:25,350 --> 01:43:05,810
Doug Reed
And, you know, there were some people that, like Kim Carrigan, the Australian guy, who I, by the way, climbed with the first time I went to Australia. He was about the best climber in the world. Coming right behind him was Wolfgang Goolick, you know, and he climbed some 514. And I'm not trying to put myself in their category, because they definitely climbed harder than me. But I wasn't trailing too far behind. And and not don't get me wrong, I'm not saying, oh, I could have done that, could have done that. That's what I'm saying. but

595
01:43:05,810 --> 01:43:19,680
Doug Reed
Back in those hundred routes a year days, I just kind of hardly took a rest day. His rest day meant going out cutting cutting trails and drilling bolts and scrubbing lichen and stuff.

596
01:43:19,680 --> 01:43:20,230
Ari Grode
Yeah, I mean, it seems certainly seems like.

597
01:43:20,230 --> 01:43:31,900
Doug Reed
I'm going to take it a couple of real days off, you know, my my climb grade hard, um you know, a couple of letters harder. Who knows? Maybe not. You can only speculate.

598
01:43:31,900 --> 01:43:43,810
Ari Grode
Yeah, I mean, it's very clear that your all your attention wasn't focused on achieving a single letter and number grade. it was on you know developing these amazing areas that we all get to play on ah every weekend.

599
01:43:43,810 --> 01:43:59,400
Doug Reed
yeah Yeah, I don't think it's wild speculation that if I had slowed down on the route development and focused a little more on a project, there's there's no reason to think I couldn't have climbed at least a ladder harder, you know?

600
01:43:59,400 --> 01:44:02,260
Doug Reed
um Yeah, you know, most speculative.

601
01:44:02,260 --> 01:44:15,270
Ari Grode
So so can we can we elaborate a little bit on, so you you you were going to Australia. i mean Was the plan to just take a year off climbing or stop climbing all together or did it just happen to coincide?

602
01:44:15,270 --> 01:44:15,870
Doug Reed
it it just It was a very natural stopping point.

603
01:44:15,870 --> 01:44:20,600
Ari Grode
I mean, you just hit like a.

604
01:44:20,600 --> 01:44:37,680
Doug Reed
It was a very natural stopping point for me. you know i I was coming off multiple hundred route a year, years, and with but that one project, I'd hit a dead end.

605
01:44:37,680 --> 01:45:14,200
Doug Reed
I was ah of an age, because I was born in 1960, I was of an age where it was very obvious I was not going to get any better. It just wasn't going to happen. I was not going to get better. I put up hundreds and hundreds of routes and it just, I got super passionate about doing something else. It just felt good. It's what I wanted to do. Just do something else.

606
01:45:14,200 --> 01:45:29,810
Ari Grode
Was there, I mean climbing is a big part of my life and I certainly didn't spend as much time or dedication like you did. I mean, what was that like to, uh, you know, have this thing that you spent 20 plus years, you know, dedicating your life to and all of a sudden you're doing something different.

607
01:45:29,810 --> 01:45:31,240
Doug Reed
It.

608
01:45:31,240 --> 01:45:31,770
Ari Grode
Was it?

609
01:45:31,770 --> 01:46:00,890
Doug Reed
yeah You know, fortunately, ah fortunately, I had something else that I was super passionate about. I mean, if I didn't, I probably would have yeah drifted into like massive depression or who knows what, but I had something else that I was like super psyched on. It was new, it was fresh and I was like totally in for it. And so it was good, you know. um I will say when I started back climbing,

610
01:46:00,890 --> 01:46:10,060
Doug Reed
It was a revelation as far as, so man, I didn't realize how much I missed climbing. i really yeah I'm back.

611
01:46:10,060 --> 01:46:10,860
Robert
Yeah.

612
01:46:10,860 --> 01:46:37,180
Doug Reed
I really love climbing. And as much as anything, though, that I can appreciate now is I missed the camaraderie of it, the just hanging with the tribe. and And now I've just got such a great circle of old friends and new friends. and but so much Most of the people that I climb with,

613
01:46:37,180 --> 01:47:01,310
Doug Reed
are ah half my age, if not younger than that. i just I'm super psyched about that. i mean It's fun. i mean I mean, I climb with Tim, you know, Tim and I are basically the same age, you know, but most of the climbing I did, like I was at Rumley Bald yesterday with ah Posse and yeah, all those folks, I could i could be their dad. Some of them I could be their grandfather.

614
01:47:01,310 --> 01:47:50,060
Doug Reed
But you know, I feed on that. at I mean, it's cool. But yeah, i i it wasn't until I started back, just like, man, I didn't realize how much I missed this. And I wish I hadn't quit for as long because I'll just say, when I go out, I don't always try hard, but sometimes I try really hard. And I'll just say it. I give it 100%, not every time I go out, but sometimes. And if I hadn't quit for so long, in 18 or 20 years, you lose some finger strength, and you're not gonna get that back. And probably at my age, you shouldn't try to get that back,

615
01:47:50,060 --> 01:48:00,410
Doug Reed
At least not all of it. Are you going to get hurt trying to get it back? It's not going to happen. Just not.

616
01:48:00,410 --> 01:48:00,430
Ari Grode
Yeah, well you want to talk a little bit about your

617
01:48:00,430 --> 01:48:46,020
Doug Reed
But i you know i can ah you know i I'm hovering right around that 512 grade, which I'm fine with that. It's my max, be it gym climbing or outdoor or whatever. that That's fine. That's satisfying. I really love gym climbing. That's something that um you know didn't exist for you know like the first half of my climbing years. That didn't even wasn't even a thing.

618
01:48:46,020 --> 01:48:59,720
Doug Reed
it it I know this is a lousy answer. It's all of it. ah like the I like the the camaraderie. I love the movement on on plastic.

619
01:48:59,720 --> 01:49:27,760
Doug Reed
and And I like that it you know makes it where I can climb pretty decent when I go outside. you know ah you know One of the most beautiful things about gym climbing, if you have a um but good gym and a good route setter, just about every route's five star. Whereas you only stumble across something as good as that outside like one in a hundred routes.

620
01:49:27,760 --> 01:49:34,770
Doug Reed
In a gym, if it's a good gym, and a good route setter, every one of them might be just stellar. Whereas outside, you only run across something like, say let's just say, slash and burn or quince on a plus or something like that.

621
01:49:34,770 --> 01:49:43,270
Ari Grode
Yeah.

622
01:49:43,270 --> 01:49:49,300
Doug Reed
Man, that's that's one in 500 routes, you know?

623
01:49:49,300 --> 01:50:00,190
Ari Grode
Yeah.

624
01:50:00,190 --> 01:50:10,240
Doug Reed
I've done a little bit of i've done a little bit of that that. It wouldn't interest me at all. No. No.

625
01:50:10,240 --> 01:50:24,870
Ari Grode
So, uh, one, one question here. I mean, what was that return? Like, uh, you know, ah you talked about, you're somebody who's 20 or 20 something years ago, pushing the close to the edge of what's physically possible on rock.

626
01:50:24,870 --> 01:50:34,520
Ari Grode
And now you come back and you know, you spent 20 years not pulling on or using your, your finger tendons in that way. I mean, was it, was there frustration like, Oh, I should be climbing harder or was it just boy to be moving over rock again?

627
01:50:34,520 --> 01:50:38,560
Doug Reed
Well,

628
01:50:38,560 --> 01:50:50,260
Doug Reed
but you just just to correct just to correct, you said climbing 20 something years ago, really when I was most prolific is more like 30, 35 years.

629
01:50:50,260 --> 01:50:50,600
Doug Reed
But just just to yeah put it in perspective, no, I was climbing horrible when I first started back.

630
01:50:50,600 --> 01:50:57,310
Ari Grode
Okay, okay.

631
01:50:57,310 --> 01:51:32,140
Doug Reed
Really poorly but because of gym climbing I Kind of rallied back pretty well pretty quickly like um you know um and Didn't get to where I could say climb about 512 in the gym for Several years I'm gonna say Until like four years into the comeback could I kind of hit that sort of difficulty level Yeah.

632
01:51:32,140 --> 01:51:43,260
Doug Reed
um Yeah. um I didn't do that until my kids started climbing. Cause I was always real hesitant about trying to push them toward climbing.

633
01:51:43,260 --> 01:51:55,350
Doug Reed
I knew a lot of my friends that were probably a little more pushy with climbing relating to their kids. And I was just not going to be that guy. And so I really let them kind of find that on their own.

634
01:51:55,350 --> 01:52:00,390
Doug Reed
You know, they had friends that started gym climbing and stuff. And that's when I started back to kind of share that with them.

635
01:52:00,390 --> 01:52:01,890
Ari Grode
Thank you.

636
01:52:01,890 --> 01:52:35,020
Doug Reed
um Yeah, totally. and um And they climb for a while, but they they don't climb now. but I hope they'll pop, maybe come back to that eventually.

637
01:52:35,020 --> 01:53:05,730
Doug Reed
Yeah, I saw i saw ah saw something that was, I don't know if it was on Facebook or something. One time my my daughter, Hallie, sent me this thing where she saw some kind of discussion as you know on some social media, probably Facebook, and and some discussion. And she chimes in and says, ah yeah, that's my dad. I'm real proud of him. And I was like, man, that just made my day. like My kid's like,

638
01:53:05,730 --> 01:53:10,280
Doug Reed
Yeah, felt really good.

639
01:53:10,280 --> 01:53:22,520
Ari Grode
That's pretty cool.

640
01:53:22,520 --> 01:53:26,400
Doug Reed
Um, you know, I um...

641
01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:47,430
Doug Reed
just to get out and enjoy being out with friends. Like I said, I'll i'll try as hard as I can, you know. um but But yeah, having a good group of people to climb with. I get together with old guys, sharing old stories. It's nothing more fun than getting out with Tim, for example, and, you know, sharing stories, talking about routes.

642
01:53:47,430 --> 01:53:59,770
Doug Reed
talking about grades and you know all that kind of stuff. but ah And I really like sharing with ah with the young folks. They like to hear stories about stuff and hear about first ascents and things like that.

643
01:53:59,770 --> 01:54:10,420
Doug Reed
And that's that's cool too. you know But I learned stuff from them as well. you know it so just Just doing all of it. Yeah. um And

644
01:54:10,420 --> 01:54:18,520
Ari Grode
is is there any Is there anything you'd like to see kind of from the next generation kind of coming up, you know, moving moving the sport forward?

645
01:54:18,520 --> 01:54:43,390
Doug Reed
Well, you know I think it's what I am seeing. It was not all that many years ago, for the most part, that you know people were pretty much saying, oh, trad climbing is dead. you know It's all about sport climbing, blah, blah, blah. that no That's not the case. There's a lot of people doing some impressive

646
01:54:43,390 --> 01:54:55,850
Doug Reed
some impressive tried stuff. There's some good stuff going down and both first ascents and repeating stuff that you know maybe have sat dormant for years and years and years.

647
01:54:55,850 --> 01:54:59,180
Doug Reed
um

648
01:54:59,180 --> 01:55:22,560
Doug Reed
Example, a good friend of mine, Jacob Ward, just recently climbed electric Kool-Aid acid test ah at at Looking Glass all on gear. Super badass, just incredible. My brother and I tried to free that thing probably in...

649
01:55:22,560 --> 01:55:54,610
Doug Reed
in the early 80s, we failed miserably, failed miserably, but but we tried that back in the early 80s. And they're now, now that that's gotten, they've kind of got the beta dialed on it and they're calling it 13A. And it does have four bolts that probably should have never been put in there, but Jacob's done it both on bolts, with the bolts and supplementing with gear, but he's also done it. um um using a bunch of ball nuts and not clipping those bolts.

650
01:55:54,610 --> 01:56:03,620
Doug Reed
And they're also now doing a second pitch above that that's been done. I think it's 5.13 too as well. But yeah, now it's what I'm seeing, you know, people climbing hard trad stuff and sport because I, you know, I

651
01:56:03,620 --> 01:56:13,100
Ari Grode
Yeah, I think that ah just happened. It was weeks ago.

652
01:56:13,100 --> 01:56:37,430
Doug Reed
And that was one of the things that I objected to about here in Western North Carolina in particular. There are people being really preachy about telling folks how they ought to climb and trying to dictate how they are climbing. I always appreciated differing styles. you know i've I've been super active in big wall climbing, multi-pitched trad stuff.

653
01:56:37,430 --> 01:56:49,350
Doug Reed
dangerous climbing, free solo, sport, you name it. like I can appreciate all that. you know There's not just one way.

654
01:56:49,350 --> 01:57:14,320
Doug Reed
um and i think i've been pretty prolific in all those styles of climbing. um Maybe not in Big Wall. I've never i've donet ah done Big Wall climbing. I went there really prolific in that. But ah I've done it. Yeah. Like I said, we used to take trips every spring to Yosemite.

655
01:57:14,320 --> 01:57:28,760
Ari Grode
Yeah. Yeah. That was a good, I mean, I don't know if you saw, we we actually sat down with Jacob for an interview on the podcast. ah I think it was our second episode. um Yeah. i'm I'm blown away with what that, that crew's been doing out in Western North Carolina, like revitalizing some of those old routes.

656
01:57:28,760 --> 01:57:29,500
Doug Reed
There's men and those i I like all those guys.

657
01:57:29,500 --> 01:57:32,440
Ari Grode
And it's amazing.

658
01:57:32,440 --> 01:57:53,270
Doug Reed
There's a posse over here that's doing some cool stuff. um they They really are. um yes And ah yeah, it's impressive. that They've repeated some stuff, like for example, not just that I put up, but like for example, ah two summers ago,

659
01:57:53,270 --> 01:58:06,230
Doug Reed
Bunch of stuff at Shiprock got repeated that hadn't been climbed in years. Stuff like Special Forces and Revival and stuff like that. And there there was a little crew putting that stuff down.

660
01:58:06,230 --> 01:58:10,390
Doug Reed
And um it's good to see, good to see. Steven Davis, man, he's got a head.

661
01:58:10,390 --> 01:58:13,350
Ari Grode
Yeah, I think Jacob said he did.

662
01:58:13,350 --> 01:58:46,270
Doug Reed
Steven's got a head for some dangerous stuff. He did a thing at the dump warping and dwarfing that Um, has been led very, very few times, very few times. Um, 11 plus X. Um, I took a free solo lap on it one time. I never actually led it, but it doesn't really matter. You know, free solo lead, it's kind of the same thing. Um, but those are, you know, that, you know, that route. Yeah.

663
01:58:46,270 --> 01:58:59,730
Doug Reed
So, steve Stevens led it. um There was the first, to say as far as I know, I think probably just three. The the first free ascent, my free solo, and Stevens lead on it.

664
01:58:59,730 --> 01:59:00,950
Doug Reed
That one, Special Forces.

665
01:59:00,950 --> 01:59:01,990
Ari Grode
ah

666
01:59:01,990 --> 01:59:10,840
Doug Reed
Man, people have broken ankles on that. Multiple broken ankles on Special Forces. Y'all know that route it at Shiprock?

667
01:59:10,840 --> 01:59:12,860
Ari Grode
I kind of know where it is. ah I've never actually like taken a peek at it.

668
01:59:12,860 --> 01:59:16,380
Doug Reed
Yeah, it'd be left left of gunfighter and revival Revival we kind of brought that thing back to life because originally It was it was done way back before power drill.

669
01:59:16,380 --> 01:59:27,430
Ari Grode
Just left of revival. Yeah.

670
01:59:27,430 --> 01:59:57,720
Doug Reed
So to protect the start so I didn't have to hand drill a bolt I put a sling on a tree and use that to protect me on the on the like super dynamic crux to start um which I actually did in a more static way originally and then later did the dynamic. But the tree died and fell down and the thing really wasn't getting climbed. People were climbing it in a really danger, I thought, potentially dangerous way, putting wired nuts over these really rusty studs.

671
01:59:57,720 --> 02:00:15,570
Doug Reed
And I was afraid somebody was going to get hurt. So I put a good modern bolt on there. And I think it's maybe one of the best 511s at Shiprock now. And it gets done regularly because it's reasonably safe. But it's not a sport climb by any means.

672
02:00:15,570 --> 02:00:29,260
Ari Grode
Yeah. Actually, Jacob told, maybe we could finish on this, but Jacob told a story of, ah he said he he recently did the, but I don't know, second, third, fourth ascent of Fairhope. And he said he climbed it on your quick draws, which is kind of a cool full circle moment.

673
02:00:29,260 --> 02:00:48,340
Doug Reed
Yeah, yeah so so that thing, it got, um yeah, so it put up Fairhope, which is out on the hanging chain wall, obviously named after my original scent on the wall hanging chain. And Fairhope, which is a sport route,

674
02:00:48,340 --> 02:01:38,800
Doug Reed
um Many years after I put it up, I don't know, got one repeat and then went another 20 years or so without getting repeated. And Jacob did repeat it last year. So it's three ascents in 35 years or something. um Hopefully it might get another scent this winter. It'd be good to see. Be nice to see. But yeah, once again, Jacob, he's all rounder. He was bolder than yesterday at the ball. Sent hard sport routes. Done all kinds of cool trash stuff, dangerous stuff. And then stuff like glass menagerie, just hats off. you know Pretty i impressive.

675
02:01:38,800 --> 02:01:44,520
Ari Grode
Yeah, yeah, the the the future of climbing is certainly in safe hands, I think.

676
02:01:44,520 --> 02:01:47,460
Doug Reed
Yeah, yeah.

677
02:01:47,460 --> 02:01:56,560
Ari Grode
Well, cool. I think that might be a good place to kind of wrap it up or write it about like two hours.

678
02:01:56,560 --> 02:02:05,190
Doug Reed
Oh, cool. Yeah, I hope it didn't ramble too much.

679
02:02:05,190 --> 02:02:09,180
Ari Grode
No, this this was this was absolutely fascinating.

680
02:02:09,180 --> 02:02:22,780
Doug Reed
Um, I, one thing I'll say is I hope you'll edit that down a lot. It's going to be a snore fest if you include all that stuff. Yeah. Really kind of edit that shit down a lot.

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Ari Grode
Yeah, i don't think i don't think it'll be I don't think it'll be as much as you think. But yeah, i'll i'll we'll edit it a little bit. but ah

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Doug Reed
I trust you. I trust your judgment.