Ground Up 27: 24HHH Veterans Leather & Lace

0:00 Dick and Natalie in anyway, but I put the word in for her. So she said, let me design a sea shirt for you. So the full color version of this was our shirt one year. Dick and Natalie And then the next year, they took that same graphic and made it for everybody. And people were saying, what is that? What is that? And if you look real close, one has long eyelashes. That's Natalie. and Robert Oh, nice. Ari Grode ah Robert OK, nice. Dick and Natalie And if you look really close, there's lions because our theme was unicorns in a field of lions. Robert okay Ari Grode ah Dick and Natalie So there's all these little lions and we're dominating them. Robert nice Dick and Natalie there Well, the funny thing about that was also that we had this t-shirt that was like, we're unicorns in a field of lions. And everyone else was like, that's cool.

0:41 Dick and Natalie Can we get that too? And we're like, no. Unicorns are unique. I mean, how you know, then we'd be a unicorn in a field of unicorns. Dick and Natalie Makes sense. but then next year everybody got one yeah Dick and Natalie yeah what year was this does say 2021 2021 we've been so many years that um yeah they kind of run together i actually have a cheat sheet of every year uh when tommy came when uh Ari Grode Uh, so what, what year was that then? Ari Grode Okay. Okay. Ari Grode Perfect. Robert That's awesome. Dick and Natalie You know, Sonny Trotter came, what our scores were, how many people competed. I did that because wrote the software for the scoring, the original scoring software.

1:26 Robert Okay. Dick and Natalie Because whether you know it or not, the the initial two years were on Excel spreadsheets. Ari Grode I don't doubt it. Robert Wow. Dick and Natalie And you had to fill out your own scorecard at the end of the competition. Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie And do math. but But it was. After 24 hours of climbing. Scorecard was 20. Ari Grode The real challenge. Dick and Natalie It was clustered by grade, not by area. So you had all the five sevens clustered together, all the five eights clustered together. Robert wow. Dick and Natalie So you had to have a guidebook to find out where you were and what it was. And then at the end, you'd have like five five sevens at 70 points. And you had to do the math. Well, I did four of those, four sevens at 280 Well, when I wrote the software for the third year, I had all those old old spreadsheets and all that the old scorecards.

2:13 Dick and Natalie And I figured out, people can add, but they can't multiply. Robert ah Dick and Natalie yeah The results were wrong for those first two years. Robert I, I don't doubt it Dick and Natalie not Not desperately wrong, but a couple of places were definitely wrong because all all the people with the spreadsheets were doing, they'd take it, see the person's total, put it in a master spreadsheet, and at the end, they'd say, Jeremy Collins scored 10,200 points. And they'll say, well, what did he climb? I said, I don't know. Dick and Natalie Nobody knows. He just got 10,000 points. Oh. So the funniest thing about that, when my score... Dick and Natalie wow We got to put the dogs up. ah When my software came out, it was hilarious. Jeremy said, you mean everybody's going to know what I did?

3:00 Ari Grode Hmm. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Everybody's going to know exactly what routes you did to score your points. says, man, that's horrible. and nancy everybody yeah Because it showed what everybody did. You could get online and and see what everybody did, how they did it. Dick and Natalie So that changed everybody's strategy. They say, oh, wait a minute. Nobody went east. Nobody climbed this route. Robert Yeah, yeah. Dick and Natalie now with the phone and now with the phone app And even if you're knowledgeable how it works, you can go to their score and you know what routes they did first. Dick and Natalie Because when you enter your as you enter your score, it gives a timestamp. And so you could say, oh, wait a minute. Yes, they clustered their first 10 routes. They didn't put them in.

3:44 Dick and Natalie They put them in all at once. So you look at it and say, oh, those are the first 10 routes they did. I know where they started, which is valuable information if you do the 24 very often. Robert Yeah, I think i think it's it's more it's always like it's always funny seeing all the new groups and everything. Ari Grode Yeah. Robert and And I feel like everyone has to learn the hard way of like where maybe where to start, but more so like where not to start. So that's always like ah it's always a fun one. Dick and Natalie Oh, yeah. Robert You know you got to pay your dues, to say the least. Dick and Natalie When Natalie was really fighting it out sometimes for for most routes and stuff, she had a couple of friends. They'd show up and say, well, where you starting? I don't know. Where are you starting? Oh, I don't haven't decided yet. And they're playing all this coy stuff that was that's just hilarious. Keeping the cards close to the chest.

4:31 Robert of course, of course. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Ari Grode Yeah. Over, ah over're we're starting over in the East, you know, we'll we'll be there for the first eight hours. Dick and Natalie yeah Robert hit Ari Grode We'll see you there. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Well, the very first year, nobody knew what to do. And the very first year, anybody that went east was totally screwed because you take 20 minutes to get over there. Dick and Natalie And there are not that many. Don't forget, this is way back when there weren't near as many routes and there weren't very many easy routes and people didn't make their first hour. And if you don't get around every hour, both both people, you miss the bonus points at the end. Robert Oh, wow. Ari Grode Oh, wow. Dick and Natalie And you don't get a t-shirt, you don't get the horseshoes came later on. Yeah, so after that, people pretty much figured out. Very, very few people started going east. And so it became everybody running up to the North 40 after a couple of years.

5:24 Dick and Natalie How many years have we done it? 20 or whatever? We never once ever have gone east. Not once. Nope. Ari Grode During the whole, during the whole event. Robert at all or or to start it off? Dick and Natalie and And any, river no, ever. I mean, we when we're when we're not at when we're not at the 24, yeah, we climb over there. But not ah not during 24 hours. Dick and Natalie It's just not worth 20 minutes of walk over there. There was only one year where we considered it. um The year I got the most five nines. This was after my injury and after everything, after Natalie had had her her big push and got her 206 routes. Dick and Natalie you know I looked at, you know as a scorekeeper for years and years and years, I knew the low hanging fruit. And the most five nines for an advanced climber was low hanging fruit.

6:13 Dick and Natalie So we started out and only five nines. That's all I climbed until 1.30 and ah I showed up later on in the in the morning around 3 a.m., 4 a.m., and we were talking to climbers, they were saying, hey, what are you doing? I said, oh, just most five nines. They said, yeah, how many of have you got? And I said, 84. And they said, oh, never mind. Dick and Natalie They were going for the same thing. Robert Yeah, And there's some fun ones in the East. Dick and Natalie right But as far as I went, we considered going east because we were running out. Instead, we just kept going further west, like over to Street Fighter and and the arcade. Ari Grode Okay. Dick and Natalie And that's as far as we've ever gone. We've never gone past those two walls. Ari Grode Okay. Yeah. Dick and Natalie no Those are pretty new ones.

6:53 Robert There are there are some fun. Ari and i did 5'9 push one year while we were doing the Golden Horseshoe. So we kind of had to do more than the 5'9s. Dick and Natalie Okay. Ari Grode Two. Robert But... Yeah, there's some ones over there. There's also some ones that hurt quite a bit. So probably for the best. Dick and Natalie Oh, well, I failed on one, on 159 on the wall behind the Titanic boulder, really sharp and really, it did. Ari Grode Oh, I know that one. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie yeah i tried it three times and put him down Dick and Natalie think was just growing up at that time. I probably had you know upper 70s, so i i just I just gave up on it. Ari Grode We always joke that there's like three routes right there. Dick and Natalie Yeah.

7:35 Ari Grode There's like 10A, and 5.9. And a 5.9 is the hardest. The is the middle one and the is the easiest. Yeah. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Ari Grode ten a's the you know the e the middle one and the ten b's the easiest Dick and Natalie Exactly. yeah You know the trick by going a little bit right. yeah You can go right and then go back left. Robert Yeah, Dick and Natalie Yeah. Yeah. Ari Grode yeah Robert yeah. Dick and Natalie but once you Once you know the tricks, it's hilarious. Robert Dog's barking because we're giving away too much beta. That's the that's the micro beta there. Dick and Natalie Well, they usually bark and she gave them some treats and that usually shuts them up. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie But they get nervous when we aren't usually talking like like this over here. You know, it's just like, oh, and so she could put put them in the gym. No, I didn't do that. Robert Yeah, yeah, yeah.

8:16 Dick and Natalie Oh, you didn't. Okay. Well... But yeah, we we learned a long time. Some of the tricks that that we've developed over over the years have become pretty standard. Dick and Natalie Like at first, nobody stashed. You'd be at the start. Everybody had your backpacks on and stuff. Then when you start stashing, ah and you're stashing ropes then you're stashing And then you're stashing your trad gear. Dick and Natalie Everything started to develop. But we've never done the the super duper, go super fast by everybody having a Dick and Natalie Everybody has a carabiner you pass back and forth between you. We always tie it in with a traceback bowline, and we just untied and retied because it never locked up. And it takes a few seconds, but I don't think there's any manufacturer on earth that would would certify their harness to have a beener click to the belay loop as you're meaning of taking a lead fall.

9:13 Ari Grode Yeah. Robert Yeah, there's certainly some shenanigans that go on, hell, to say the least. Dick and Natalie But that's how that's how That's how almost every everybody trying to go fast does it that way now, or they have their own separate ropes. Everybody wants, oh yeah. Ari Grode yeah oh like two ropes yeah yeah interesting Dick and Natalie but But some people like ah Jeremy and when he was climbing with Tommy, they had rope stashes at different crags so they can just that leave their stuff behind and yeah. Ari Grode yeah yeah yeah i mean Dick and Natalie You find out some of the secret stuff sometimes when you're hanging around the right people. Robert Yeah, for sure. There's that whole wiki page too, on just like all the different nuance beta and all of that stuff too. It's Ari Grode Yeah, i think I think with the 20th anniversary coming up this year, it's going to be really fun to kind of... Since you guys are probably one of the only teams that has climbed at pretty much every...

10:05 Ari Grode Or has climbed at every iteration of Horseshoe Hell over the past 20 years, including the one that nobody climbed at. Dick and Natalie Well, Dick and Natalie ah we did. We did. We're the only ones that did. Robert Yeah, yeah. Ari Grode Yeah, so it'll be it's really... Dick and Natalie We went down there, we did by the rules, and we did a full 24 by the rules, brought all our stuff in, did it all by ourselves, like on a Tuesday, and there was nobody else there, and and and took it all out just to go by the rules. Robert Nice. Dick and Natalie I was going to get, I have 15 tick marks on my arm for my 15 years of doing D24, but it's really 16, but we stopped after that. Now we've been doing the 12th. Robert ah Ari Grode Yeah. Yeah.

10:46 Dick and Natalie But up yeah up until when we stopped, we were the only team. No other team stayed together with it with the same name and the same two people for those years. But there are two other guys that have done done it every year. Dick and Natalie Yeah. look Luke Stuffelbe, the guy that writes the software now, he's done it every year. Ari Grode Who or who are they? Ari Grode Okay. Robert yeah Ari Grode Yep. Dick and Natalie and John Richard. John Richard's done it every year. Robert so god Gotcha. Ari Grode ah cool. Okay. Dick and Natalie Yeah, from St. Louis. Ari Grode I didn't that. Dick and Natalie Yeah. yeah They just haven't had the same partner every year. Dick and Natalie Yeah, they switch around and other people people are pretty close. i don't know if anybody's done it. Take those two away. jeremy Jeremy's missed one year. No, he missed last year too. Ari Grode Gotcha, gotcha.

11:27 Dick and Natalie Oh, did he? Yeah, he ran it. Oh yeah, because he wasn't climbing. Yeah. I mean, he was there. So mayor Jeremy's probably done it like 13 times, maybe something like that. So I don't know you're, I don't think you can run it and and still compete in it. Dick and Natalie I've been trying to get Andy to do it. Ari Grode would be tough. Dick and Natalie I said, come on Andy. That's the one time I said, I Robert Yeah, now that he's not running it, he's got to jump in, right? Dick and Natalie Oh, yeah. I tried to talk. Natalie, I said, Natalie, why don't you climb with so-and-so? And I'll try to get Andy to do it with me. and But she says, ah, we've been together all this time. Dick and Natalie This is the 20th year. So, you know, doing singles, is I've pushed for singles since almost from the start. Robert yeah Dick and Natalie And Patagonia shut it down a while back. that they didn't want They didn't want to change. and You can see they were really excited about it. And they just didn't want changes when, you know, why why change it? If it's not broke, don't fix it.

12:20 Dick and Natalie Then finally i said, we we got to do something different. You know, talking with Jeremy finally for the pulled the trigger and say, yeah, let's have fun. let's Let's get everybody excited again to try new stuff. Ari Grode Yeah, ah not going to lie, when that first came out, I think at least my reaction was, oh, no, like, you know, that's I was a little bummed. But after thinking about it for a little bit, i I actually got pretty excited about the idea of like, wow, it's kind of a totally new like blank slate. Ari Grode You know, it's going to be really interesting. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Well, one of the reasons Ari Grode Everyone's on the same like playing field. Dick and Natalie Well, one of the reasons was, have you ever talked to anybody about what you did in the 24? Ari Grode It's going to be it's going to be cool. Dick and Natalie Every time you do it, you have to put the caveat, oh, by the way, I didn't do 150 routes. I did 75 routes times two. you know Ari Grode Mm-hmm.

13:11 Dick and Natalie And after a while, it got kind of tiresome to say, come on. And they say, well, why did you climb it twice? Well, those are the rules. Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie i you know I climbed it twice. Ari Grode Some Dick and Natalie and And so now it's just like, no, I climbed 100 routes. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie on your back i think it's going to be tough this year to make the standards they have to re-qualify, though. Robert Yeah. We were curious what, uh, what you were thinking in terms of like what the overall experience will be like now that there has been that shift from two laps to one. Ari Grode ah some of them are pretty tough. Dick and Natalie oh for For me, since the last few years, um not for me, but I've got some nerve pain in my leg that's I had a new hip last year and my hip pain was tolerable. Dick and Natalie We did 75 routes last year for my 75th birthday. you know That was my kind of birthday challenge after my birthday. But I had a new hip in October after that.

14:03 Dick and Natalie And I've always had nerve pain since my accident, but now it's gotten worse because of that. i think all the muscles they had to pull and it's on the same leg, you know, that where I've pain before and all the nerves they had to push around. Well, so we're just gonna go cragging. Robert Nice. Ari Grode I see. Dick and Natalie We've done that the last couple of times we've gone, we've done that, cause I've had various issues ever since. Some years I feel really good and I can do things, some years I can't. Some years I have to take off my, I can't tolerate nerve pain in my feet. I have to put on trail shoes. Dick and Natalie so So this year, to me, it's more important to see if I can climb 10 Ds or maybe even 11 A than it is that I could do 50 routes.

14:51 Dick and Natalie So we'll see. ah It's harder to stay say fit when you get in your 70s, believe me Ari Grode How about you, Natalie? You got anything on the agenda for this year? Dick and Natalie me. Well, I don't, you know, he has he has thoughts on climbing hard things. And that's not what I do. best. Dick and Natalie I do best a lot of things, but you know, every year he says, we don't have to climb that crappy five, seven again. So, you know, don't want put that on him. Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie Um, we'll see what happens. I mean, I can climb the five C's and D's. I just, you know, my game has never been how hard can I climb?

15:34 Dick and Natalie It's always been how much can I climb? So, um, but you know, we're only doing the 12. Ari Grode yeah Dick and Natalie It doesn't mean anything, uh, You know, I will say it's going to be a different game for everybody climbing one route an hour because there's only so many easy routes. Dick and Natalie So if someone does have some thoughts of climbing, you know, 150 routes, they're not going to be able to climb 150 five-eighths. Ari Grode yeah Robert Right. Dick and Natalie you know what I mean? They're going to have to climb more hard routes in their set to get that many routes. So it'll be interesting how people change their ah strategies and their goals for that.

16:16 Dick and Natalie Natalie is always the groundbreaker on route. Ari Grode So maybe we can. Dick and Natalie She's had the woman's records for route count a lot. First person to break 100. And then somebody broke it at 132. Next year, she did 133. Dick and Natalie then she did 160, then she did 180, then she did 206. So she's always been, now it's gone up, you know, 300. Genevieve did 300, just blew it out of the water. Robert yeah Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie But I've always thought it was kind of cool for us as the older generation, the fact that she has been, spurring the youngsters to action when they see what she can do. Dick and Natalie I think it really motivated some of these youngsters to say, you know this this lady is kicking her ass, but we're 25 years old and weigh 120 pounds.

17:08 Dick and Natalie What's going on here? Robert Right. Dick and Natalie ah So I think that that's been a motivation. Ari Grode Hehehehe. Dick and Natalie And I think Jeremy used to tell me, you know there's i said, I don't think anybody cares if I beat him. He says, oh There's a lot of people that care if if if you beat them, but they never say they're worried about Natalie beating them. Because when we first started out, we went one-two in the intermediate division before we both had climbed an 11 when I was still ah an intermediate. Dick and Natalie And she was second overall, not not you know female. So that was kind of funny. People say, yeah, i want to beat you. say, well, don't you want to beat Natalie? It was kind of funny.

17:50 Dick and Natalie But sometimes don't think you do. Ari Grode but so was gonna say some i mean maybe this is like a good transition you know it'd be kind of fun since we're coming up on 20 years here to kind of throw it back to you know i'm really curious to hear how the the event kind of started and how you guys heard about it i mean and then talk a little bit about you know what that first year was like i i can imagine the ranch had a lot less roots and Dick and Natalie Go ahead. Dick and Natalie Oh, yeah. Dick and Natalie I did a post back, I didn't put it down here um about the difference of how many routes it has been added. But the very first year we heard about it and I hadn't really climbed in Arkansas that much. i hadn't even done very much sport climbing.

18:33 Dick and Natalie I was a El Dorado type of guy and it's a little, Kansas City is not noted for having a lot of climbing. but Ari Grode Mm-hmm. Dick and Natalie Everybody was pairing up. And I just asked Natalie if she wanted to. I was getting back into climbing after um kind of a a little bit of a hiatus while my daughter was a swimmer, a collegiate swimmer. Dick and Natalie So all the way from when she was 10 years old and and my son too, and they're swimming. I kind of devoted a lot of my time and writing software. That's what I did. So I was writing software, worked at the post office and wasn't climbing a whole lot. Dick and Natalie I got back in into climbing, so we paired up. and Everybody's talking about strategy and how long should we sleep? Where should we come down? We go down to the campground to eat eat dinner and things like that. it's We only did like 33 routes, and but but she got third in female.

19:26 Dick and Natalie And I think 10,000, around 10,000 points, in fact, that year, 10,000 points in 70 routes. That's what won the very first year. And it it was amazing. Dick and Natalie weird. Then after that, the next year, let's see what I've, Travis, Don and Jesse Gross did 99 routes each. Dick and Natalie And we, everybody was blown away like, whoa, that's, that's like impossible. We did Ari Grode so And, and, and what did the, like, what did the tactics look like, I guess, for those first couple, or even that first year, I mean, was everybody just, you said everyone has their packs on, it's like a day out climbing, you're just kind of extending it for 24 hours. Dick and Natalie Oh yeah, everyone just walking up to the prairie.

20:07 Robert 1155. Yeah. Dick and Natalie You were afraid of bonking. You were absolutely terrified. You'd be too sleepy. It'd be dangerous. So you'd take naps. You know, you'd you'd say, okay, you had this strategy. Dick and Natalie Well, if I do ah ah route at five minutes after 10, that's my 10 o'clock route. And I don't have to do another route till, you know almost two hours later. Dick and Natalie Yes. So we were going to try to sleep in between. Robert that Yeah, of course. Dick and Natalie Overnight, we were trying to get some naps. Robert Because the original the original format was just you had to climb one route per hour, right? To re-qualify. That was the original. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Robert Okay. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Well, there was no re-qualifying.

20:48 Dick and Natalie It was how fast are you on the button to hit Robert Oh, okay. Robert Oh, okay. Dick and Natalie Oh yeah, that's why that's why the lottery came up. It was just like, here's the day you can, quiet you you can but yeah, you I don't. I don't think that was even an issue the first couple of years. Dick and Natalie They just let people, you know they didn't have a ah limit. Robert of course. Dick and Natalie They didn't have to, hardly anybody had heard about it. Robert How many people like roughly were there that that first year? Dick and Natalie So. Dick and Natalie i can I can tell you, 120 competitors first year. Robert Oh, wow. Ari Grode Okay, it's decent sized actually. Dick and Natalie Second year, yeah, second year, 180. Robert It's not nothing. Dick and Natalie Third year, 184. Fourth year when Tommy Caldwell showed up, 216. That's probably when they started having to hurry up and push the button. Yeah, in 2010 when Alex Donald, 240.

21:33 Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie So it it really started. yeah People were finding out about it. Wow. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie A lot of those, they were limited to 150 teams. But when I say 240, that's not how many were actually signed up. That's how many ended up showing up. Dick and Natalie you know Because his thought if you looked at it, you could say, oh, my there was 300 people, but people didn't show up. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie or But yeah, by 2010, I think that's probably about when they put the lottery in. Robert Do you know how many are are active now? Dick and Natalie The first couple of years, the first couple of years, the ill go ahead. Robert I was just going say, do you know how many are active now? Dick and Natalie they don't have I can tell you what the last year I had here. Let's see.

22:19 Dick and Natalie I didn't put how many people were in it those years. yeah he took that Luke took down some of the, well, 2019, 294. twenty nineteen two hundred and ninety four so but Robert pretty big difference. Dick and Natalie I looked at it. one One thing they've been opening up a little more, and I think Jeremy's been opening up, is the 12. They were used to limit it to 100, and now now it's gone. Dick and Natalie He's pretty much just opened it up because he opened it up to the whole canyon. So it's kind of like, okay, and the canyon's open, so I don't care if if it's crowded, go somewhere else. Robert Yeah, yeah. Robert Yeah, yeah. Dick and Natalie And the standards are going to be be tougher. But we were discussing that in the 12-hour. I don't know if you have time to run across the canyon. Yeah.

23:05 Robert I mean, we, so we did pretty big push last year in the 12th. We like went for as many trad routes as we could and we were pretty jam packed and there was like the idea, like you said, of running across the Canyon, just like, it seems like such a waste of time. Dick and Natalie Yep. Robert Like it's either like either go on Easter, you go on West, but like, I don't know why you would even consider crossing the Canyon if you're the 12. Dick and Natalie yeah Dick and Natalie Well, the routes are taller and harder over there too, in my opinion, ah by grade. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie You know and you know you do a over there. 510s on the North 40 and the West side are pretty much, except for a couple like, uh, um, Scampi one move wonders, there's the short sequence, but you you go to the East side and they're long and sustained and, uh, great routes.

23:53 Dick and Natalie There's a difference between competition routes and, uh, and, and great routes, you know, know, things that, you know, uh, Robert Yeah, for sure. Dick and Natalie You know, I would never do Hacker Crack unless I was a really, really good crack climber in the comp just because it takes too much work to do for five, nine points. yeah You know, when some of these little sport routes, that you can do it like one hard move and then jug haul to the top, you know. Ari Grode That's funny you say that. Do you remember, Rob, I think it was ah two or three years ago, I took a nice nice fall on Hackberry Crack. Robert Yeah, yeah. Ari Grode So not only did i not only was it slow, but I had to do it three times total. Robert In the middle of comp. Dick and Natalie Whoa. Robert to To be fair, that was a that was the year we were going for most five nines and the golden. Dick and Natalie Oh, Robert So we needed tried laps, but we also wanted every five nine we were getting by. So we had rehearsed it a bit ahead of time. But yeah, that was a slowed things down a little bit.

24:43 Dick and Natalie wow. Yeah, the the cracks on the west side are tough. And I don't know what these people, these people that are going to try to trad qualify, they're going have to leave the North 40. Ari Grode Yeah. Robert yeah Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie And I don't know where i don't know where they're going to go. Ari Grode Yeah. Robert Yeah. We've got couple of recommendations on where to go, but mainly where to not go for a trad routes. Yeah. Dick and Natalie Well, that used to be the easiest way to requalify was TRAD. Robert yeah Oh yeah. Dick and Natalie It was 60 TRAD, which is only 30 routes in 24 hours, which is, you know, 30 routes times two. You can do it on the North 40. Yeah, you used to be do it on the North 40. Robert Oh yeah. Ari Grode Mm-hmm. Dick and Natalie Yeah. That's Robert Ari and I used to joke all the time about how like all of the minimum requirements for requalification have like steadily outpaced like the jump of the trad laps.

25:27 Robert Like the trad laps have gone up like five laps total. And it's like, you went from like a hundred to 115 to 130 laps on like other anything else. Dick and Natalie right. Robert But like trad, it was like, yeah, like if you're climbing trad, we don't care. Dick and Natalie yeah Yeah. Well, we know some people that that's the only way they know they can qualify because they aren't strong enough to to do the huge volume. Robert Yeah, yeah. Dick and Natalie And so they unfortunately for them talk about climbing the same crappy routes year after year. If you do a trad on the north 40 year after year, that's the ultimate crap, crap route collection. Ari Grode Mm-hmm. Robert but Best five, best five, two in the world. I don't know what you're talking about, Nick. Dick and Natalie I can't think of one good trad route on the North 40, not even one that I'd say, oh, I can't wait to climb that. But there's so many sport routes that I'd say, wow, I really love that one.

26:17 Robert Oh yeah. Dick and Natalie Like Crim Scampi. Crim Scampi is always my, let let's see if the old man can still do it. Crim Scampi and Brad Holes is, I think, a little easier, but my nemesis is Portside. Dick and Natalie I did it in 2019 and I haven't been able to repeat it. Ari Grode You talking about the 10 plus on a Titanic? Dick and Natalie The 10D that's really an 11A or 11B that I couldn't convince Cole to make an 11A in his guidebook. The old guidebook had 11A by, what's his name? Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie Clay Frisbee's guidebook had it as 11A. Ari Grode Okay. I don't think we've never even tried that one.

26:57 Dick and Natalie Have you done it? Ari Grode We've done most of the other ones um the types, not that, not the really hard ones, but, uh, Dick and Natalie Well, Dick and Natalie it's it's real it's real rock climbing. I mean, it's- Ari Grode Yeah, everybody warned us about that one. Dick and Natalie It has multiple cruxes and it's really super crimpy. Robert yeah Dick and Natalie and And the other one on the other end there that is, I did it in 2020, I think, is cracked rib on the end. that That one's really hard too. Dick and Natalie Similar type of low um low percentage moves at the beginning to to try to get up to the slots and stuff. so Robert Yeah, just what you want 16 hours into hell, right? Dick and Natalie Oh, yeah.

27:38 Robert Nice low percentage beta. Dick and Natalie It's kind of interesting. Things like that, i always tell people, say, and i my argument with Cole was, port side, I had in my software that I wrote for for scoring the comp, I could go to any route and see who climbed it. Dick and Natalie I said, why did no intermediate climbers that top out at 10D ever climb port side in the comp? It's only 30 feet long. Well, it's because it's not 10D. Dick and Natalie But I don't know whether you know it or not. When I did the most five nines that was 84, I went back and looked at that score, and it says I only did 64 because they downgraded 10 five nines since I did it.

28:27 Ari Grode Oh, really? Dick and Natalie Yep, they downgraded them to five eighths. Ari Grode um interesting. Robert Wow. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Ari Grode It's funny because there was one on ah the west side that got upgraded. It must have been upgraded a couple years ago. Dick and Natalie Wow. Ari Grode it was the I think it's called Duck Hunt. And it's like so it's such a gift because it's such an easy one. Dick and Natalie OK. Is Robert Yeah, yeah. It's insane. Like it's borderline 5, borderline 5, 7 and they give it 5, 9 now. Dick and Natalie that it? Ari Grode And you get the 5.9 points for it. Robert Yeah, it's pretty wild. Dick and Natalie Is this sport route or a trad route? Robert Sport. Ari Grode It's a sport route. Robert It's over by Legend of Zelda. Dick and Natalie Oh, where is it? Robert Don't tell anyone. Dick and Natalie Oh, OK. Ari Grode It's in the arcade. Dick and Natalie We don't. Robert Yeah, it's like to the right of Legend of Zelda. Dick and Natalie Oh, in the arcade. Robert Yeah, yeah. Dick and Natalie OK. Ari Grode Yeah. on the west side.

29:08 Dick and Natalie OK, yeah. We're we're probably going to end up visiting that some of those this time because we used to, our first route used to be learning fly. Robert Oh, nice. Dick and Natalie That used to be, we did that at least two years in a row, maybe three years in a row. Ari Grode Okay. Dick and Natalie ah And you run up that hill dying to try to get it. And we would go there and then go over to Ren and Stimpy and then go over to Titanic. That that was our normal start. Robert Okay. Dick and Natalie When you're doing hard routes, that's a good way to start. When you're doing easy routes, that's a horrible way to start. Ari Grode So, so Natalie, I'd love to hear kind of, I know you kind of pushed the pace there, especially, you know, in some of the women's categories. I mean, can you talk about like, you know, what the kind of what the tactics were like and, you know, how, how you started kind of stacking, uh, you know, pushing the root, the root count further and further each year.

30:02 Ari Grode That'd be kind of interesting, I think to dive into. Dick and Natalie Well, It helped that my partner is an analyst. I always said, he just told me what to climb and I just climbed it. Cause he would go through, i mean, and then he had the software. Dick and Natalie So it was real easy for us to do. Well, if we do this, this and this, and then this, then, you know, we could do mock setups of our set really easily. Dick and Natalie So that was one advantage. I've always said my main advantage was my partner. um not only for that, but just for the training that we do. I don't know anybody else that would want to suffer like we do. Dick and Natalie um i Honestly, I can't think of anything anybody else that I would have been a good partner with or for, or that would be a good partner for me because, you know, who really does want to climb all those five sevens over and over and over and over again?

30:42 Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie um Or who wants to suffer that much or who wants to, you know, tear up their hands and their body? um So I guess our strategy was we would We would do a set. Dick and Natalie you know We'd figure out what our water set could be. um He would look at the numbers and be like, well, if we did this, then you could win this. There again, we're low-hanging fruit. um I mean, honestly, don't climb hard.

31:22 Dick and Natalie ah you know eleven a maybe is my my best red point outside is 11A. But I've been in the elite division since, I don't know, 2010. Dick and Natalie twenty 12 or something like that because i climbed enough a lot. um You know, my strategy is just to suffer. They made the rule that if you won your category, you automatically moved up. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Robert Right. Dick and Natalie Because Natalie was going to win intermediate for the rest of my life. The rest of her life. soon yeah Because she could do crimp scampi with no problem. But um There aren't very many, ah except for horseshoes and hair knees, there aren't very many friendly 11s that we were really interested in. and She didn't do an 11, I think, until we moved to Vegas.

32:10 Dick and Natalie Yeah. so she didn't she was an elite climber before she ever did an 11A. Yeah, I was up against the pros in my division. Ari Grode Mm-hmm. Dick and Natalie So I just had to train really hard. like in the We spent our summers... auto blades in the gym, going outside and doing like hours of climbing, you know, fitting it in whenever we could. Dick and Natalie Vegas was nice because you can climb before or after work there. You know, it's just, we were what, five miles from the gate. So we could, we could go, you know, we could go anytime and just, Robert wow Dick and Natalie You know, crank off. It's not, it's not horseshoe though. Like when you go to Vegas to climb, I did a 50th birthday thing there and I did 50 routes, which you would think, well, I've done 200 at but to do sport routes, Dick and Natalie um And the first and second pull out there, you're like, you have to clean everything. And you have to hike five miles because there's only six here. And then you have to hike for a mile and there, you know, whatever, you know, that is one advantage of horseshoe.

33:16 Dick and Natalie um And I will say you were asking about the first year. you had to clean your routes. There wasn't like beaners at the top of every route. So that slowed everybody down down and repel. Dick and Natalie And you had, yeah. So you had to clean your route and repel. You didn't have all these great, um, ideas for transitions and things like that. Um, so yeah, I mean, I always wondered when I was, you know, over the years, I was like, how, like, i don't climb hard and I'm old. Dick and Natalie And honestly, I'm, you know, I'm not exactly skinny. So why aren't all of these young ladies that are coming out here that climb way harder than me? I would see, we would be at the comp watching other, and I'd be like, oh my God, she's crushing. She's going to beat me.

34:03 Dick and Natalie You can't climb that many routes when you're climbing hard routes. You have to have rest at some point. um Also, I think, I'm, For a while, i don't think very many women were willing to suffer like I was. And that was, think, honestly, that's what it boils down to. Dick and Natalie i was willing to suffer for years. I was willing to do the work. That's what I did. I did the work. The funniest time that she broke the the She had lost the route count record. Dick and Natalie But we were really keeping too track of that. But the first and one year we did the double, she won the women's stuff in the 12. And we're going into the 24, we just say, let's just have fun. Let's just just go and have fun.

34:45 Dick and Natalie So she we said, just five nines and under. We didn't do anything hard. And it was easy. It was easier than the 12 because we, we did almost all tens in the 12. And so when we were doing that, so that she ended up getting near the end, I said, I got to stop climbing for a little while. Dick and Natalie You were really close to the, to the route count record, which we couldn't believe. and Which he knew because, yeah you know, so, uh, Robert Yeah. Ari Grode Keeping track. Dick and Natalie ah So I kept track. So I stepped back but for a little while and I still got my 100 routes, but she got 134. I think that's how things have progressed. But I don't know. I'd have to look up the post I did several a while back about how many routes there were available in the North 40 that there was no land beyond there was no early morning light kindergarten boulder had like three routes on it uh titanic had like three routes on it there was no wall behind titanic um unbelievable number of routes all these stolen of course there was no arcade there was no doomsday wall there there was none of that so uh it it was uh all these fill-in routes every time the routes were Ari Grode Oh, interesting.

35:35 Robert Wow. wow Dick and Natalie you You couldn't do what you do now where you run, pull a rope and go to the next route. No, the next route was, was a ways down. Yeah. I would say a hundred routes used to be pretty hard. It's I think it'll be, it used to be as hard as maybe it will be now with only being able to climb one, yeah one instead two. That'd be good to bring back the t-shirts. Dick and Natalie The hundred route t-shirts. We used to live for those things. Yeah. Yeah.

36:17 Robert Yeah, now it's the Mile High Club. Dick and Natalie Uh-huh. The Mile High Club. Yeah. we We found out that year she did 134 routes and just made just made the mile. And I think that's the first year that they did the mile. Dick and Natalie Because after that, you and I both did 152. And yeah, we we don't, some of the Dick and Natalie Speed ways people do things, we we don't believe. We pretty much clip every bolt. you know We stick to the second bolt and we put we put gear in when we do trad. Dick and Natalie yeah we don't Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie We don't risk our life and to get a couple more seconds. Robert Yeah. No, i'm I'm just cracking up internally now hearing you talk about how like Dick analyzes everything. Okay. We know that there's this many routes left. You're this close to this.

37:07 Dick and Natalie hu Robert Cause this is like, this is me and Ari. Like I just get, I'm like, where do we need to go? I show up. Let's have a good time. Ari's like, here's our plan. Here's our strategy go. Dick and Natalie Bye. Robert ah But no, you also mentioned like a couple of things were obviously different early on. Like, yeah, you used to have to clean the routes. Right. And like, okay, there's only so many routes available and all. When did, horseshoe hell really start to get enough traction that like some of these logistical things started getting figured out. Robert People started putting up more routes so that there's more access for like the climbers on the actual event day. Any other like big changes that you guys started to notice? i don't know if it was like five years in or seven years in. Dick and Natalie You probably hear three or four when the pros started showing up. Yeah, they started they started putting carabiners on the first pole. Robert Yeah.

37:49 Robert Okay. Dick and Natalie So you would take the carabiners up to the top and clip them to the anchors so people could lower off. Right, if you were the first one on the route. Robert Right, right. Dick and Natalie Now the entire North 40 is mussy hooks. And a lot everywhere else are mussy hooks. So... That was the first one of the first steps like, oh, that makes it fast. Dick and Natalie um When you didn't have to clean the routes, that that made it fast. And yeah, I think when Tommy Caldwell showed up and well, Sonny Trotter showed up the third year and Brittany Griffith showed up, I think once the pros started showing up, everybody started paying attention. Dick and Natalie And then there was at least one guy that was noted for his getting route count. And he was also a route developer. you know, bless his heart, love him, but he started putting up some crap routes just to get more routes in for the 24.

38:36 Robert Okay. Dick and Natalie Seriously, he did that. Ari Grode Hmm. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie You know, it was like, wow, these are, you know, we still do them, the three-bolt routes on the back of the Titanic, or maybe they're two-bolt. If you clip the second bolt, you only have to go to the anchors. Dick and Natalie Yeah, you know, those are routes. And, uh, Dean Potter actually soloed one of those routes on the first ascent on the backside of the Titanic. But some of the routes that, some the routes they put up in between routes and stuff are pretty pretty nice routes as far as for the grade. Dick and Natalie But One time I asked Jason, you know, Jason down there, the main climbing guy, I said, early early morning light wall.

39:21 Robert yeah Dick and Natalie I said, how come there's no routes in that? he says He says, because you you can put you can drive a drill into it's like butter. He says that the rock isn't near as good as some other places. Ari Grode Yeah. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie And you'll notice if you climb there, the rock is not that good. And now there's like a dozen routes on that wall or something. Robert Oh yeah, there's there's a lot. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Robert That wall saved us our first year. Dick and Natalie yeah Robert We were not going re-qualify and we went on a tear on that wall. So appreciate those butter bolts. Dick and Natalie yeah in Robert Yeah, Dick and Natalie Those starts, broken holds have made those starts like at least a letter grade harder than what they're listed as. And it's just to get off the ground because all the all the stuff that's broken off.

40:01 Robert yeah. Dick and Natalie But those those are the types of stuff that, um, um People got excited. Oh, now they finally had to stop doing the 100 route t-shirts because all of a sudden there were so many easy routes that people could do it really fast. Dick and Natalie The Titanic boulder, if you do the Titanic boulder and the Emma's got a mullet area, you're almost there when you can do two routes, you know, when the old style. You didn't have to go very well, very far. The kindergarten boulder. Yeah, kindergarten, Boulder area, and Emma's got them all. Dick and Natalie Man, you clean up those. In fact, the year and Natalie did a 206, we had 120 routes by 12 hours. You know, she did.

40:45 Dick and Natalie I didn't. Robert that's That's a good feeling, isn't it? Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, you know you're going to slow down overnight. i mean, that that's a fact. Robert Yeah, yeah. Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie You're not going to get 120 more routes if it's 9 o'clock. At least I'm not going to. Robert Yeah, Ari Grode yeah Yeah. Dick and Natalie So I needed to have a head start. She's. Ari Grode Put them in the bank and and yeah, get them done for sure. Dick and Natalie yep Yeah. Robert yeah, yeah. Yeah, I feel like most of the time things don't always go according to plan. So if something is like you're ahead of schedule at hell, you're like, this is incredible. Dick and Natalie we We have a couple of little hints we give people that are that are new to it that we know, that we've done over the years that that help. that We don't want to give too many away yeah but because too many people would do the same thing.

41:27 Dick and Natalie But it definitely helps if you know way way the traffic flows uh when you're on the wall and you're in your observer you'll you'll see certain patterns of of way um climbing groups work almost like a living organism they're all up here and then they're all over here then they're all right same group and you'll you'll find out throughout the day you're with the same group of people because you're all moving like an animal and you all and it's smooth because they're going quit you know who the fast people are and they're all cooperative and uh Dick and Natalie Once you know that and you you get the right group of people, you'll trade, you'll share routes. Hey, can I have that route? I haven't done that. If you want want to do this one first, the real cooperative people. And then every once while you get the the jerks that Jeremy ran into a jerk one time. He was going for 300 routes.

42:19 Dick and Natalie And the guy wouldn't give up the route ah to let Jeremy run up there in 20 seconds. and they and And he said, there was plenty of routes around. He said, but I'd already done them all. And he just really needed one route. Robert Yeah, Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie But 99% of the time, people are real cooperative. And we almost never end up in a group with people we know right off the bat. Robert yeah. Dick and Natalie But we after 24 hours, we know him pretty well. Yeah. Robert Yeah, yeah. No, no chance. Dick and Natalie Because of my work in the past, and I'm writing the software and helping get this going, because let's face it, this is not possible without software. Robert no no chance Dick and Natalie There's just too many data items. Take 300 people with 100 data items each. That's a lot of data items. to type in. But we have a we always have a cabin right right next to where the the volunteers are.

43:12 Dick and Natalie So we we have ah an ace in the hole whenever we need something up at the crack. Hey, you need a shower? Dick and Natalie So I said, what? I said, I'll give you a shower. You can have a shower at our at our place if we can have that round. often Robert Oh, wow. Talk about a bargaining chip. Dick and Natalie Never fails. Robert That's incredible. Dick and Natalie for Or just the bathroom. Yeah. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie Well, now they have bathroom down in the lower, the lower campground has a bathroom now. Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie I don't know if you know that. Robert Oh, amazing. No. Dick and Natalie On the east side. east side. Yeah. They opened the lower campgrounds. Ari Grode Oh. Robert Yeah. yeah Dick and Natalie Yeah. So yeah they're reserved campsites. So, i yeah, we have, we have a season pass, which is camping and climbing, but it doesn't apply to the reserved campsites. Ari Grode Okay.

43:56 Dick and Natalie So you have but they have their bathroom down there, which will really help the east side campers in the 24. Ari Grode Yeah, Robert Gotcha. Dick and Natalie I'm sure. Robert Yeah. I mean, that'll help the the brave souls that are doing the 30-minute canyon crossing during the 12, too. Ari Grode and no kidding. Robert You never know. So that's it. Dick and Natalie Hmm. that that's Ari Grode I'd be kind of curious to hear, you know, you talk about like, you know, adding new routes and a couple of things that allowed so many people to Robert Go ahead, Ari. Ari Grode you know, get to a hundred or or whatever the progression was, was there any, like a couple of impactful moments that kind of happened throughout the years that like people went like, aha, that kind of changed the game.

44:37 Dick and Natalie That's an interesting thing to think about. mean, was pretty impactful that pros showed up. Well, I think when the people started doing that that trick was with the carabiner where they could just switch it back and forth, that was I think that was pretty good. Dick and Natalie The thing I think that was impactful in a different way was we started having to make some rules about you have to clip the first or second bolt on every support route. You have to put enough ah gear in to keep from ground fall, which That's all a matter of opinion on some of that stuff. But you you can't just run up like some people would do and throw a sling on a horn right next to the bolt, next to the anchor, and say they did it fine. But they really sold the rack.

45:21 Robert Right, right. Dick and Natalie that That didn't affect very much, but I think it did make it make it safer. I can tell you what affected things was when you wrote up that. They put it on 24-hour website. Dick wrote, Dick and Natalie dick wrote Basically, this is what we do. these These are all of our tips. And I was still competing pretty hard. I was like, don't tell them everything. You just told my competition what we do. Ari Grode Ha ha ha. Dick and Natalie I did tell about taping and out now gloves. For some people, for us, gloves are huge. ah We climbed up to 10C with gloves on.

46:02 Dick and Natalie Fingerless gloves, you know, that... Robert Yeah, yeah. Dick and Natalie tips are gone, saves your hands. oh but on a tape But a lot of the stuff we talked about, stashing, stashing your water um and your trad and having a like cards with all your trad beta, little things, but mainly how we go about things. Dick and Natalie ah Some things aren't on there that we tell people. Dick and Natalie You don't want to have use the restroom very much if you can help. And the women, Natalie said she'd climb out the top sometimes to top out to go to the bathroom because there's just too many people in the bathroom.

46:42 Robert No. Dick and Natalie But other but things, you don't want to run around with a wag bag either. Ari Grode Oh wow. Dick and Natalie and so So try to take care of those things. Robert no Dick and Natalie And eating, the right thing, i would tell what we did for you. I've never cramped up. We've never really bonked or cramped up, either one of us, in almost 20 years now. Dick and Natalie Because we we weren't eating pizza and we weren't eating you know you know just weird stuff. We weren't eating all carbs. we were chugging energy drinks. you know We do a five hour energy around one or two o'clock. Dick and Natalie But other than that, we weren't doing a lot of the stuff that other people were doing. But other than that, that that' probably helped quite a bit. At least the new people, it helped them a lot. The people that have been around for a while, they we all just kind of came to the same conclusions about how to and where to start and what to do.

47:37 Dick and Natalie I think the main thing people don't understand say, yeah, I can eat a bagel with with peanut butter while I'm belaying. I'm not going to sit down. And it's so hard to start again if you sit down for very much very long. Ari Grode Oh, absolutely. Dick and Natalie It's so hard. Robert Oh yeah. Body in motion stays in motion. Don't you dare put your butt on the ground. Dick and Natalie Great. Trail shoes made a big difference to a lot of trail shoes on easy routes because then people could run, literally run up the hill and get on a route. Robert oh yeah. Dick and Natalie You didn't have to sit down. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie And I remember when your friend of ours was just going nuts because her partner was taking her shoes off after every climb, just going nuts. Robert Oh my goodness. Yeah. Dick and Natalie ah You know, and she was going hard. She wanted to go, you know, do a lot of routes. And so, so That's, I think after a couple of years, if you're somebody that returns, you got to find the right partner.

48:27 Dick and Natalie A lot of people, you'd see them show up with different partners and sometimes it's because yeah one of the partners was was just a jerk or they just didn't have the same motivation. Dick and Natalie that That's huge. You gotta to have somebody that wants at least similar things. Like Natalie and i I'm willing to let her go as hard as she wants, as many routes as she wants. And I just wanted to, I may be sitting out while I get the hard routes that I wanna do. Dick and Natalie So we we can be compatible without doing the exact same agenda. Dick and Natalie It was interesting how Rob and Basia figured their stuff out like that. Robert Yeah. Robert Oh, yeah. Ari Grode Yeah. but Robert You talk about dialed. My goodness. Dick and Natalie Oh, God. Robert i yeah I do think that... Dick and Natalie Their spreadsheets, oh my God.

49:09 Robert Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And i we we were... that two years ago already when they were first trying to the 50 or whatever it was uh we were cleaning a bunch of routes because that was the year we were doing a lot of trad so we kept running into them like the days leading up to the the comp and everything and they were talking to to us about their spreadsheet and it was just mind-boggling to think about how quickly they were supposed to be moving over some of these routes like for 24 hours it was it was incredible Dick and Natalie Well, I videoed them on some of those routes just because I was interested. And they never looked hurried. Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie And when they were doing trad routes, they're putting the gear in. When they're doing sport routes, they're clipping the appropriate number of bolts. I even had a post about it. I said, you don't have to do all these stupid tricks to try to gain a few seconds.

49:55 Dick and Natalie And here are the guys with all the records, and they do it the right way. They do it the the safe way, and and and they do it by the rules. So, yeah, it was we watched them do... went over on Kindergarten Boulder, a trad route. He just floated up it, no hurry, came down, they're talking. in And I think I saw a picture of his, I don't know if he sent it to me or it was opposed, his spreadsheet one time. it was It was mind blowing to see all the different colors on it. Ari Grode Yeah. Yeah. Robert uh, Ari Grode I, I, I climbed with him, um, a few times since I've moved to Colorado and we've done some gym sessions and it, like you said, it's like, he's so fluid at climbing.

50:36 Ari Grode Like, you know, the five 10, him climbing a five 10 looks the exact same as climbing a five 12. It's just, he's not moving incredibly quick, but he never stops. And it just all the way up to the top. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie All those guys I think what you see about those climbers, and I've seen the pro climbers that I've had the fortune to watch climb, is their footwork is impeccable. Dick and Natalie I mean, it's just like you never see them scratching the toe scratching to try to get their foot on a hole. They just place it on the hole, just like, oh. Ari Grode Yeah, they save ah save a lot of money on re-souls, huh? Dick and Natalie Oh. I just had to find a little piece of rubber to stick on the toe my TC pros because they're not in one car. I wish they had they had a blunt nose ah version that has an extra inch of rubber on the nose.

51:27 Dick and Natalie Always wear it out. So are you doing the 12 and the 24 this year, both of you guys? Robert No, not this year. We did, Ari Grode we We did that. Was that last year we did that? Robert yeah we did the 36 last year and we did, was the final tally? Ari Grode Yeah. Robert Was 109? Ari Grode We tied Jeremy's Robert nine Ari Grode ah ah Robert individual tread. Ari Grode trad trad in the 12 record. We both got 100 trad routes each. Dick and Natalie Oh, nice. Robert so yeah the day The next day was brutal. Ari Grode um And then it was an absolutely pitiful, pathetic attempt at the 24 after that. So I don't know if we'll ever do the 36 again. Robert Yeah. Ari Grode At least I don't know if I will. Robert I think, I feel like we we did it to our best ability and that's good enough for me. Ari Grode Yeah.

52:08 Robert That's what I'll say. So I think we're 24 is for now. Dick and Natalie That's the same conclusion we came to. We did it first year there was a 12. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie We did them both. Robert Okay. Ari Grode Okay. Dick and Natalie And yeah, we were like, been there, done that. Robert that Dick and Natalie and And it wasn't horrible doing the 24 because we didn we didn't try hard in the 24, even though we ended up doing okay. But we found out the 12th show was a lot of fun. You know, you don't have to worry about lights. Robert Yeah. Ari Grode Yeah. Oh, so fun. It was so fun. Robert 12 is a great day of cracking. It's just like a, ah ah just a jam packed mega day. Dick and Natalie No lights, no check-ins. You can socialize a lot and everybody yeah everybody has a lighter mood about them. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie And I think... That's another thing when you see what what changed. When they made the qualifications, for instance, 100 routes, all of a sudden, people weren't hanging out.

52:58 Dick and Natalie They were getting serious. People were moving fast. That changed a lot. So when you showed up somewhere... You know, first thing you're asking is how many laps. that That's always the first thing you ask, how many laps. Dick and Natalie But it used to be, they're sitting there will m there didn't used to be a rule until we put it in. If you're not tied in with your shoes on, you're not in line. That helped. Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie So people can't say, hey my partner's over going to the bathroom and say, sorry, we're going. Robert Yeah, yeah. Robert Yeah, Dick and Natalie you know Or or they they're just sitting around and you show up and they say, well, we're next. Robert yeah. No. Dick and Natalie They say, no, you're not. you don't You're not tied in with your shoes on. And you're not being a jerk. Robert no Dick and Natalie you're just You're just saying, that you know take your rest. We'll be done pretty soon. oh Little things like that help move it along. But any more Most of the people now have serious intentions. They want to come back.

53:48 Dick and Natalie And to come back, you've got to work hard. And so the weights aren't near as bad. And it's not near as frustrating as it used to be, having people just sitting around. They were just there for the party. Dick and Natalie And they got in They only wanted to do it once. So they didn't care if they were clogging up around. you know they didn't Ari Grode Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dick and Natalie know Robert ah dick you recently mentioned about like one of the biggest tips for horseshoe hell is finding the right partner to climb with obviously you two have both had like been climbing and together for such an extended period of time and like most not most but a lot of climbers don't necessarily get to experience like climbing consistently with the same person for so long like can you talk about how hell has helped like develop your partnership as climbers and like beyond it.

54:33 Robert And then also like what makes it so successful as well for you guys. Dick and Natalie Well, okay. Kind of a little story here. Robert Okay. Dick and Natalie We were both married to different people when we first did help. Robert Oh, gotcha. Dick and Natalie Okay. Ari Grode Oh. Dick and Natalie A lot of people we know know that. Okay. But... um It went along that, Natalie ended up getting a divorce. She moved to Arizona and we would still do the 24. Dick and Natalie And then I moved to Vegas and I ended up with a divorce. And we're still doing the 24 together. then Then we started dating. Okay. We knew we were compatible because if you climb with someone doing the 24, Dick and Natalie I mean, pretty raw sometimes. you know You've seen each other have some pretty hard times. and And you see how supportive you are and you see how um how well you get along.

55:26 Dick and Natalie um If you have this, you're understanding when they're having a bad patch or understanding if you're not getting exactly what you want. Plus, you know you're cooperating with each other and and support. Dick and Natalie And it doesn't take very many years of doing the 24 together to to know that your you're a pretty good match. And so you know when when I finally asked her to marry me, we had two weeks from then until we were married in a video in Vegas. And from then on, Dick and Natalie That's when we started living in Vegas. And then we were just, our climbing was mainly an awful lot of classic trad routes, multi-pitch trad.

56:12 Dick and Natalie The 24 is a little different for us. That's not our favorite kind of climbing at all. you know But Natalie is super good at that type of endurance. And i I enjoy it well because the software I put into it, I enjoyed supporting the community. and um We just like doing it together because of the people you run into, our friends. We have so many friends down there. and Now, the volunteer group is a whole different group. we're in the vol We volunteer every year for the 24 after doing the 12. Dick and Natalie So the last three years, I guess, we've we've done the 12 and the volunteer afterwards. So now you have another whole group of friends. Dick and Natalie so um Yeah, I think the way it was at the 24, it probably helped our relationship grow for sure. You know, we've seen people break up.

57:04 Dick and Natalie We've seen some things. yeah we see You see people that that we've seen see dressing down their partner in front of everybody, stuff like that. Dick and Natalie I mean, just just awkward. Like awkward, like you don't want to be there. Ari Grode Huh. Dick and Natalie You don't want to be there long enough. But I think when it's over, you you find out if there if the partners are still friends. ah Yeah, we I think the 24 had a lot to do with our relationship. And we... Dick and Natalie you know like they said it just developed along the way kind kind of we became close friends first let's put it that way you know and uh you can't if you have a partner well you know you got to be good friends in the to compete like that together and come out of it still feeling good good bad or indifferent because we've had some bad years especially when my some of my problems i've had with my spinal cord injury has come up that I just couldn't go, you know? And so you just have to back off and let her keep going. And I had to back off. And those are the years where she understands and I understand, but I still try to support her and she tries to support me.

58:17 Dick and Natalie It's worked out great. so regret um No or no regerts. Ari Grode her No regrets. Yeah. So you guys have, ah you know, you've, you've touched on this a little bit, but you know, you've been coming for 20 years or will be 20 years, I guess here ah this year, but you know, what, what's the main thing that's kind of kept you coming back? You know, you just mentioned like, it's not your favorite style of climbing, but like why come back every year? Dick and Natalie The people it's, it's our, all of our friends. We see these people once a year and it's like, we just saw them yesterday. i mean, we wouldn't miss it. Even if we were both crippled, we would still go, we would be there, um, to support our friends and to see our friends.

58:58 Dick and Natalie Um, it's like, it's like extended family, you know, we, we messaged with them a little bit during the year and, um, It was a a good well ah good number of our friends actually visited us when we were in Vegas. um now Now they visit us for overnight because you know nobody comes to Kansas City to climb. They're usually on their way to somewhere that's actually cool. Dick and Natalie so But we're right in the middle of this of the country now. So we see we see our friends you know passing through. Yeah, care if you're ever going to the East Coast, like if you're going to the Red or something, let us know. You can stop by and... Dick and Natalie you know if you're going yeah Do you live in Boulder?

59:42 Ari Grode I live in Denver, or just just west of Denver. Dick and Natalie Okay. i you It's a nice stopping point. And we just had some friends here at this past weekend that stopped overnight. And then he went on to Chattanooga. It's a good stopping point. Ari Grode Oh, cool. Dick and Natalie He stopped and spent the night, have some coffee and hang out and go to dinner and then drive the next day. And so we've we've become that, those people. Well, we were those people in Las Vegas. Ari Grode Okay. Dick and Natalie we We really enjoyed having a lot of visitors. It wasn't, you know, um I mean, it wasn't an Airbnb. Nobody paid us to come, but we actually enjoyed having company. Robert yeah Dick and Natalie And i feel like it, you know, you just, get to have a lot of experience, different experiences with different people, different type of people. Um, I had some friends from, um, when I lived in Arizona that were actually, I'd climbed with them once in Arizona, they were Canadians and they came through. Um, we have friends that brought their family who spoke French and, you know, we had them for awhile. So, uh, Dick and Natalie We're people, people, people persons, whatever you want to call it. We just like people. So I wordle with jared Jeremy every day. yeah ah Ari Grode Oh yeah?

1:00:55 Robert Nice. Dick and Natalie Yeah, so some of those people, you know, like, you know, I got pretty close with a lot of the people that started it, like Andy and stuff like that when I told them I'd write the software for them. like Because my my job at the time was writing software for managing swim teams. I said, I can modify that to, you know, I've got some of this have already written that, you know, taking the competitors' names in, and I just have to change the way swim meets are scored with the way competition is scored. Dick and Natalie Even the first year that we had it running, Andy came up with my portable up to the crag and I had to make ah a change to the database while he let somebody else belay Natalie.

1:01:38 Ari Grode you Dick and Natalie but Those are the types of things you remember and and the friends you make. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie an you know it's yeah Some of our best climbing friends are definitely from Arkansas. or we meet in Arkansas, let me put it that way. that Sometimes I don't even know where they're from. Dick and Natalie you know There's people like a name right now. I don't know where they live, but I know I'm going to see them at the end of September and we'll all be hugging out. And and sometimes they'll move around. You won't even know anything about their lives other than what you see on Facebook or Instagram. Dick and Natalie Then you find out you know quite a few things change and it's great just catching up. And you know what it is, the vibe down there is incredible. I mean, it's just, even even though we aren't headbangers in the and the dance-offs they have down there in the field.

1:02:20 Ari Grode Oh, yeah. Robert ah Dick and Natalie Although we did go down there last year and sit up next to this, day oh Jeremy kind of got me to do that, stand up next to the cage and bounce around for a little for a few minutes. Dick and Natalie That's always quite a great, actually we do it just go for the beer, that's the truth. I mean, I think Ari Grode It is pretty good. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie The other draw is just like, that's our climbing home. It's our where we cut our teeth climbing teeth. um You know, we have history there. It's a familiar place. We just like to be there. Dick and Natalie There again, I feel like even if even when it's not the 24, we like to go to Arkansas. We like, you know, course we climb, but we also like to hike there. There's just lots of things to do there.

1:03:12 Dick and Natalie um And it feels like our home away from home. It's four and a half hours, but it's our local, it's our, what we call our yeah our local crag, as opposed to five miles that it was to Red Rock. Ari Grode Okay. Ari Grode Still some good sandstone though. Dick and Natalie oh Oh, yeah, wait we went to Yosemite. We've climbed some ah limestone in in Vegas and ah yo Yosemite granite and, uh-uh, I want sandstone. Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie We're spoiled. Robert Yeah, it's hard to beat the reins for sure. Ari Grode but Maybe. Robert it's a I think it's the closest thing to an outdoor gym I've ever been climbing on. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Oh, oh yeah. Yeah. I think that's what it's like when we get down there, even though I don't mind when Natalie talks about climbing the crappy routes. Ari Grode but Dick and Natalie I mean the crappy sixes and sevens and stuff like that. But once you get up to the nines and stuff like that, even the North 40, they're pretty enjoyable to climb. From nines and up are pretty enjoyable. And you can have a good day. You feel like youve got a decent workout and they aren't as crappy as some of the lower grade routes.

1:04:14 Ari Grode Yeah, it'd be kind of funny to, it's funny to think about because there's some routes that are really enjoyable, like to climb. And then there's some routes that are really unenjoyable to climb during hell that, you know, are really enjoyable climbs like ah but Dancing Outlaw, for example, like great, great route, but I hate climbing it during hell. Dick and Natalie oh Yes. Yeah. Dick and Natalie was like, oh, yeah. I don't know how to. Robert Oh, Ari Grode Yeah. Robert got it. Although I think some of that might change a bit because now it's one lap, right? So it's like the ones that were like brutal on that second lap, you don't have to worry as much about, but now it's like the gimmies. Ari Grode yeah Dick and Natalie Yes. Robert You're like, oh man, we only get one lap on that. That's a bummer. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Oh, that's like Webster's. nothing Robert Yeah, yeah. Ari Grode Yeah. Robert You get six laps. Dick and Natalie Webster's is such a joke. Robert You don't have to move. yeah. Dick and Natalie I mean, I I said, why why isn't oh but why isn't Jihad two routes?

1:04:58 Robert yeah Dick and Natalie you know yeah If you do the direct start to Jihad, it's like a Boulder problem. But if you do the regular one by starting on learning to fly, you know it's a 10B. I say, come on, Webster's is two grades and it's a one move, one move. Robert yeah that's three if you do the trad version too you know yeah yeah Dick and Natalie What the hell? Dick and Natalie That's true. People have abused the hell out of that. right that that was as always I've been trying to get rid of that. Make it one. Dick and Natalie but However they want to climb it, just make it one grade. And that's it. Ari Grode Yeah, that's a funny one. Maybe, ah you know, you mentioned like that moment where Andy had you make a change to the software mid event. Robert Yeah.

1:05:40 Ari Grode You know, I'd be curious to hear, do y'all have any like, or both of you have any like favorite moments from hell you'd like to recount? Dick and Natalie I have a favorite moment. i know what it is. Early, i would say in the earlier second, third, maybe fourth year, I can't remember what year it was, but we used to have the award ceremony in the upper level of the barn. Dick and Natalie I don't know if you've ever been up there. Yeah. Ari Grode Uh, we, the only time I've ever been in the barn was when they did that main event race and they had, yeah, they, you had to go in the barn. Robert the obstacle course race. Ari Grode You had to like crawl through that like tunnel system they've got in there. Dick and Natalie Oh, the video box. Okay.

1:06:20 Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie So you've been up there. I mean, it didn't used to be that, the you know, it was just the upper level of a barn a long time. Ari Grode huh. Uh huh. Dick and Natalie that In fact, at the end of it was like a door that would open, I guess way back in the day, they'd throw hay out of it or something. But anyway, that's where they had the awards. Dick and Natalie And what they did was all of these sponsors would donate stuff and they'd put them out on a table. And then Andy would read off the winners and you would just go up and grab whatever you want off the table. Robert ah Dick and Natalie But he didn't read them from like, okay, we're going to start with elite and go down. He wanted it to be random because he wanted it to be for every man. Maybe that's one of the reasons why we love this competition so much. I could never win a competition where the hardest climb, the one that can climb the hardest climb wins.

1:07:15 Dick and Natalie this climb this competition is for every every man because there's like a bunch of different ways you can win heck you can win something if you have the best haircut or know whatever so anyway he liked that random thing and uh he called i can't remember i don't even remember who won what but jeremy won something and he was up there perusing the table and uh dick and i won something right after Jeremy and we all, we knew what we wanted and Dick grabbed a backpack and I grabbed a rope and Jer goes, he would, that was what he was deciding between those two things. Robert This. Dick and Natalie need just stop I think, I think I thought for sure she was going to say something else.

1:07:59 Ari Grode That's so funny. Dick and Natalie She was I stepped in the bed next to Tommy Caldwell. Oh, that was pretty cool too. Robert a Dick and Natalie Yeah, and into yeah we were in a cabin with one of those lofts with the twin beds up there. And yeah, there were those pretty I was kind of a fan girl. I won't lie. Dick and Natalie Yeah. my i Ari Grode Who's not of Tommy Caldwell? Robert Probably the best night's sleep Tommy's ever had. Dick and Natalie good It was funny because that year he was on his phone constantly with his now wife all the time. But for me, the year in Natalie won everything, that award ceremony, I sent you a video of that, that award ceremony was, man, couldn't have been better.

1:08:47 Dick and Natalie That was pretty cool. But I also felt good that I was like 60, I don't know, 68 when I won the most five nines. ah And that's after my, injury and and rehab where my first year I was desperate on 5'7". Dick and Natalie So i like three or four years later, maybe it was five years later to do that. That was my proudest moment. wow Happiest moment it was when she won every day. That was my day. Robert yeah all good Dick and Natalie yeah she'll stop Hopefully. Sorry about her. Oh, she stopped. Dick and Natalie That was Ozzy? Yeah. We've got two Cairn Terriers, the Toto Dogs, Oz and Munchkin.

1:09:27 Robert yeah nice Dick and Natalie So yeah, they're, but yeah, those, of all the things, those as far as performance-wise, we've had, Ari Grode Ah. Dick and Natalie kind of hard to say other than that. It's just kind of fun. It used to be fun. It'd be great. They used to have arm wrestling up in the loft. They had slacklining, and they had also they had a push-up contest. Dick and Natalie and Some of those things, there's just too many people, you can't do it anymore. It was kind of fun that way. But the funniest thing about that award ceremony one year was they had all this stuff and everybody picked it up.

1:10:09 Dick and Natalie And all that was left was like third place wreck. And Amy Johnson walks up to Sarah, oh, we forgot one of the prizes. It was this full-size crash pad. So third place wreck got this giant crash pad that would have been one of the first pick-offs it had was pretty funny. Robert a Ari Grode Uh, Robert That's awesome. Ari Grode that's hilarious. Robert it's awesome Ari Grode So, you know, now that we're coming up on, we've, we've alluded to a lot of the changes they're making this year, you know, the one route, you know, curious, where, where do you think, how do you think the event will progress over the next five or so years? Dick and Natalie Well, I think it would Dick and Natalie They're going to have to wait and see how everybody responded to this. I think the the qualification standards are pretty stiff. It'll be interesting how many people re-qualify. I don't think the cycle will be any different. It'll just be like if if it's harder to re-qualify and they and they fine tune those.

1:11:10 Dick and Natalie um I think we're phasing ourselves out, I think. But I know. Every year, but and't know every year People are you know saying, oh, I didn't get in on the lottery. So as long as there's people that aren't getting in on the lottery, there's going to be new. But I do notice every year they say how many people are new. Dick and Natalie And it seems like about 50% of the people are new. So we have their they base set of people that are kind of teaching the new people what's going on. And I think after you learn what it's all about, I think Usually you want to do it at least once. Dick and Natalie oh you know And I've known several volunteers that are volunteering only so that they can get in so they can do it the next year because they've tried in the lottery several times and couldn't get in. ah I hope it stays up as as long as the the ranch keeps supporting it. you know there They've got their business agenda and hopefully it makes money for as long as it makes money for them, I think they'll they'll keep doing it.

1:12:09 Dick and Natalie And I don't know anything about that part of it. Especially if they start watching ating adding some of these things that they're talking, you know, it would be amazing if you didn't have an e-bike, but you could use a mountain bike during the comp, you know, but then you would go across the canyon real real fast. Robert Yeah, Dick and Natalie That would make some of those things interesting. Ari Grode I Robert yeah there might be some people that go across the canyon a little too slow though if they're on a mountain bike. you know They might take a couple of spills here and there, so who knows? Dick and Natalie I've been always worried out there now that they have cows and some other animals, I'd be worried on those mountain bike trails of running into some animal. Ari Grode wouldn't... Yeah. Dick and Natalie It's just, but I'm not a mountain biker. I like to have two intact clavicles. Are you guys mountain bikers?

1:12:54 Robert but i will I will do it in like on certain trips or something like that, but I don't um don't mountain bike regularly. Ari Grode and i wouldt yeah Dick and Natalie No. Ari Grode Yeah, same here. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Ari Grode Same here. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie Hopefully it stays the same. as As long as you intend to keep coming, I guess it'll it'll it'll stay high. Robert Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's it's funny, we ah like, I've got some friends here in New York that they used to joke around like, man, Rob never shuts up about horseshoe hell. Ari Grode Yeah. Robert And then they finally came last year and they're like, and they're like, now we don't shut up about horseshoe hell. And like, they love it, like they're hooked. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Robert So it's like, it's like you said, when you get newbies that are shown the ropes and they like enjoy the experience, like all of a sudden everyone's bought in for for life. So I think it'll keep going for a long time, if I had to guess.

1:13:39 Dick and Natalie yeah we we had We had some friends from Vegas that showed it up at night, like early in the early, like 1 in the morning, maybe 11 at night, something like that, and came to our cabin. Dick and Natalie And they'd never been to HCR. And they had all these dreams of what they're going to do Two strong, young climbers. Oh, we're going to climb all these right ten blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, yeah, OK, great. Dick and Natalie And so we gave them a quick walk around before it started. And they crushed. They crushed, they did all these onsite and everything. And at the end I said, well, how'd you like it? He said, well, I don't know, was pretty rough. and And I talked to him later and he said, well, on the way back, we were planning, how are we gonna do a different next year?

1:14:20 Robert Oh. Ari Grode Mm-hmm. Dick and Natalie So it's kind of like type two fun, then it almost becomes type one fun. You know, it's like, it's like two fun, like, oh man, I don't know, that was really rough. Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie and But you're so happy you're so happy what first when the sun comes up. Robert oh Dick and Natalie And then you're so happy when you have your beer. Then you're so happy when you eat something good that tastes good. but Those three things, I think. Whenever you watch these shows on TV about survival stuff, and they talk about how good food tastes when they're in that state, I think the 24 puts everybody in that state where you appreciate your sleep, you appreciate your beer, you appreciate yeah you know there're your your pizza when it's over.

1:15:03 Dick and Natalie I think Ari Grode Yeah, that post-competition beer is is maybe the best beer of the year. Robert yeah The post-competition nap is one thing that i look forward to on my schedule year in and year out as well. Dick and Natalie i Robert That is absolutely exhilarated. Dick and Natalie i am a hard I have a hard time. Robert Oh Dick and Natalie I've always had a hard time Well, when I wrote software, which they ran my software for like eight or nine years, um I had to go to work as soon as I was done. Robert ah no, that's brutal. Dick and Natalie Because i was I was the person that had to deal with any of the problems, so I couldn't take a nap. Robert Yeah, Robert yeah. Dick and Natalie But after after luke took over, I was just so hyped up, I i had a hard time taking a nap. And that looked pretty easy, but I was just kind walking around. Robert Yeah.

1:15:46 Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie I'd sleep well that night, though. Ari Grode Yeah, that's a funny comment you made earlier about the ah you know how how you go from suffering mode to what can we do better. the the delta and The delta for Rob and I between when we finish and celebrate to like when we start talking about what we could do better the next year is usually about like two minutes on the walk back down to the to the trading post. Robert yeah Ari Grode We're already like, well, I don't know. We could probably shave a little bit of time if we did this next year. Robert And then without fail, the next, the next year, we're already doing something completely different strategically. Dick and Natalie yeah you Robert So it doesn't even matter. Different goals. Dick and Natalie like you you you pick up You pick up pointers from let's seeing other people. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie You say, oh, I never thought about doing that. Ari Grode Right, yeah.

1:16:28 Dick and Natalie that That was a really good idea. you know Robert yeah Dick and Natalie There are too many of those aha moments out there, but every once in a while you'll see one and and make note. Ari Grode if Dick and Natalie I think when people started climbing in trail shoes, that was one of them. Like, why? Ari Grode Yeah, oh, for sure. Dick and Natalie Let me go see if I can climb with some cruisers on and instead of my TC pros. Ari Grode Yeah, if you could... Dick and Natalie Or some different ways people manage their ropes. Like some people had laundry baskets or IKEA bags or, you know, we some of that kind of gave us the idea that why don't we just put it in a tarp and just like, we don't have to keep stuffing it in a backpack that way. Robert Yeah, i brought a Dick and Natalie We just grab it and we go, we don't have to keep rolling it back up in any perfect way. Also you're, you know, you pull the rope, it's in the tarp, you pull up the tarp, the four corners of the tarp and you go to your next route and it's already laid out.

1:17:18 Dick and Natalie Like you don't have to reflake or you know, so yeah, just little things like that. Ari Grode Yeah. Yeah. Dick and Natalie i think one of the biggest thing for us as far as yeah you don't realize at first, um, doing two laps in a row, each person doing two laps in a row, you don't alternate people that alternate. Dick and Natalie It wastes so much time unless it's a hard route. There's no reason to alternate. You do two laps. Ari Grode yeah Robert Doesn't matter anymore. Dick and Natalie Yeah, now we're got that's what that's what's so good. Yeah, now all this all these these fine crossover strategies that everybody had. um We're moving to the next route. What difference does it make if you have to untie and retie? Dick and Natalie re We're going 30 feet to the next route. That's true. Some of those strategies are obsolete now. Yeah, that's true.

1:18:05 Ari Grode Hehehehe. Robert yeah I feel like we just became fluent and then they changed the language on us, but that's part of the fun, right? Figuring it all out. Dick and Natalie Yeah. I think it was good that they changed them myself. Robert Yeah, yeah. Dick and Natalie I just feel like it's kind of a passing of the torch, so to speak. Robert A nice little challenge. Dick and Natalie um You know, Dick's always been the oldest one in the competition. um is that it think, a Dick and Natalie who am I trying to think of? um Oh, no, they're not in new anywhere close. No, no, no. Robert What about whiskey and tequila? Robert Okay. Dick and Natalie ah Who am I thinking of? In um from Columbia? Yeah, Carpowitz, Carpowitz, Jim Carpowitz. No, they're 10 years below me. are Are they? Okay, 60. So I'm in my 70s.

1:18:48 Dick and Natalie Right. So even when you were we start when we started you were in your 50s. And you were still the oldest one. Their combined age was what it was their combined age more than our combined age. I've got 16 years on her. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Dick and Natalie Rob DeCray. Yeah. They were two sixties and we were at the time. Yeah. right That's, that's right. Um, so Dick's always been the oldest one and I've been one of the older ladies, although there have been a few ladies my age or older that have climbed in it. And we just kind of feel like, you know, maybe most everybody else was in their twenties when they started. Now they're having, you know, having kids and all that stuff.

1:19:30 Dick and Natalie And it's kind of like time to pass the torch to uh, Dick and Natalie the the kids that have learned to climb in the gym from the time they were four, and now they're on the climbing team, then they are going to be crushing it. So... Robert Yeah. Ari Grode Yeah. Yeah. Dick and Natalie well Robert Yeah, there's going to be some, I feel like that just across the board, not to go on too big of a tangent, but it's like this whole year, i feel like has been to like a very, don't like big display of what the the product of gym climbing can lead to. Ari Grode yeah Dick and Natalie oh Robert Cause it's like last year was Olympics and then this year is not Olympics. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Robert So everyone that was training hard their entire life for that is now just unleashed on the world.

1:20:10 Dick and Natalie Right. Robert And it's like, you know, 70s had records like, Brooke rabbit is doing like everybody's just Hamish is going off and it's like, yeah I'm sure somebody like in the next three, four years are going to do something hell that's going to be like mind boggling. Dick and Natalie We just see that. um We see the kids that I've been training. you know In the two years, give an example of like one girl, I've had her for two years. Dick and Natalie She couldn't do any chin-ups at all. Couldn't do one chin-up. Now she cranks off eight on offset with the upper one being a pinch. you know and And she can she can do you know like, she adds 30 pounds and cranks off four or five pull-ups.

1:20:50 Dick and Natalie And their finger strength and the stuff they can do the dinos they can do the man, this blows you away. I mean, it's just... Dick and Natalie um I'm glad um I had something to do with some of their progress, but I'm dumbfounded by ah how strong they are and what they can climb at their ages, you know like 11 and 12 years old. It's just, we we have 16 kids on our team. Dick and Natalie And when we show up after our warmup, which is extensive, when we show up down in the bouldering area, it pretty much everybody kind of clears out because they see these kids come in and run up, you know, the V6s and the V8s.

1:21:30 Dick and Natalie And then pretty soon it's like, hey, but we got the bowling area to ourselves. Ari Grode Yeah. Robert Yeah, maybe that's the next real change we need to tell Jeremy is like, we need to like up the minimum age requirement to compete in hell just so like we all still have a chance. Dick and Natalie yeah yeah right now 18 most of the most of the kids on our team. I mean, they're under 16, most of them. under sixteen most of and but One year they did have it where they they had some climbing team show up and that was a disaster. Dick and Natalie Those kids didn't. Oh, man, their parents were bringing them food. They were trading off belayers. They were projecting routes. They were doing everything wrong. They they came for a crying day. Yeah, and so they finally had to say, no, 18.

1:22:14 Dick and Natalie and we just can't We just can't have that happen again. That was a whole disaster. Robert yeah Ari Grode Yeah. Robert I'm sure they also saw some outfits that they probably didn't need to see anytime soon either as well. Dick and Natalie Oh, that's the other thing. Robert So yeah. Dick and Natalie It is not child friendly there at all. Robert Yeah, no, there's a couple. Dick and Natalie Yeah, I would not bring, Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie yeah That's another thing. child They'll probably say, okay, boomer, but there's a lot of us i didn' know yeah that I didn't approve of. Robert Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. Dick and Natalie I don't want to look up and see that and at all, especially if there's a little kid next to me. But that's me being an old fuddy-duddy, I guess. Ari Grode Haha. Dick and Natalie Well, I'll tell you what really probably makes us realize, i mean, when we're hanging out with our friends, lot of our friends are 20 years younger than us. But I think what makes us realize sometimes how much older we are is the after party and, you know, all of that stuff going on.

1:23:03 Dick and Natalie You know, they have lights and people are wearing giant heads and bumping into each other. And we're like, let's get some chairs and go to the far part of the ranch and look at stars. Dick and Natalie It's just not our thing. So we definitely feel our aches. Robert Yeah. Dick and Natalie Yeah. Robert No, you're certainly not the only ones. I mean, we go in there and we try to go enjoy the concert and like we always get to the edge of the mosh pit and I've always just left scratching my head like, i don't think this this part right here. Robert don't think that one's me. I don't know. i don't quite know how to ah attempt to enter that that circle. So I stay out of that one as well. Ari Grode the Dick and Natalie Yeah. Ari Grode The idea of someone stepping on my toe after I've been in climbing shoes for 24 hours is motivation enough. Dick and Natalie We used like, used to go to. Robert yeah Dick and Natalie That's right.

1:23:43 Robert Thank you. Dick and Natalie When they headed up in the pavilion, it was great for us because we'd go down in the field where they now have the band now. And we'd go down in the middle of that field and and just sit there and look for shooting stars while the noise was up the hill. Now it's it's down there in the field. Dick and Natalie But I think that's one of the reasons if some people show up, they come for the party atmosphere, and yeah they which is you know more of a festival for some and more of a climbing competition for others, which is what it was always meant to be. Ari Grode Yeah. Ari Grode yeah Robert Well, this either way, i mean, obviously we all have our thoughts on how much we do or don't enjoy the after party, but I can confidently say like this conversation has been incredibly enjoyable for both Ari and myself.

1:24:28 Robert Like this was so fun to sit down and i don't know, like obviously we've climbed together a little bit throughout the years at hell and had little conversations here and there, the wee hours of the night, but getting to like sit down and actually hear it, like start to finish what your experience has been like, it's been awesome. Dick and Natalie Oh, Robert So can't thank you guys enough for doing this. Robert This is a blast. Dick and Natalie I appreciate it. Oh, thank you. Ari Grode Yeah. Dick and Natalie We enjoyed it. Ari Grode Yeah. so we're We're stoked to see guys in not too long now, few weeks. Dick and Natalie Oh, for sure. it's true Yep. Part of the family now. yes Robert Yeah, we have a month, right? Robert Yeah, right? Dick and Natalie All right. Stop by our cabin. Yeah. ah Do you have a cabin when you're going down there? Robert Absolutely. Dick and Natalie or do you have a place you're staying? Robert We stay like five minutes ah away at a cabin. Dick and Natalie Okay. If you need a bathroom, knock on our door. Ari Grode Yeah. Like a air but it's like an Airbnb, not too, not too far. Robert Yeah.

1:25:12 Robert appreciate Appreciate that. Dick and Natalie You know where we are, don't you? Robert We might take you up on that. Dick and Natalie You know where we are, right? Robert If you're behind the volunteers cabin then, that what you're saying? Dick and Natalie we're We're next to her you know where the Red Bull 10 We're in the right-hand side of that cabin. Robert Yeah, yeah. Ari Grode ah Okay, cool. Robert Okay, amazing. Dick and Natalie We're kind of grandfathered into that because of all the software work he did for free. yeah so yeah That was an agreement when they bought the ranch too. Robert Love that. Robert Nice. Ari Grode Oh yeah? Dick and Natalie He would keep the 24 and we got that cabin. Robert Yeah, written in stone, that's awesome. Dick and Natalie What happened was after Tommy stayed with us, Robert Yeah, we've never figured out how to get a cabin on the premises, so we always just try to get the closest Airbnb we can find. Dick and Natalie ah Robert cause Dick and Natalie what happened was after after tommy stayed with us um he offered to pay us because we we paid for the cabin that year. And then we just kind of approached the Johnsons at the time and said, you know, um at the time I was running the software and that's when they accomplished the cabin. And it's been that way ever since.

1:26:06 Dick and Natalie So it's been good. Robert Love that. Dick and Natalie Awesome. Ari Grode Nice. Robert All right, all right, we gotta get on our